When a proxy isn't a proxy

[Vincenzo Bruni]

Yes we all know that, we all saw that: soda bottles used as Greater Daemons, keychains as SM flyers and so on.
And often it was plain terrible: proxying was the name of low quality games at worst, worth a laugh at best.

It's not always the case, you know.

Warhammer Proxies! ([url]https://www.facebook.com/groups/535981369814344/[/url]) is a Facebook group for "serious proxiers" - hobbyistis who convert and modify toys, souvenirs, cake boxes, burned-out electronic circuits et cetera into Warhammer 40K and Fantasy models.



Sky is the limit for imagination.

We have a lot of ferocious and vocal haters but we do not give up, ever.

Do you wanna give us a chance?

[Captain Bubonicus]

No.

[GrauGeist]

It's a lot better if you share some pictures of what you're talking about.

If you can't even share pictures, what does that say about your confidence in how good your proxies *really* are?

[Defenestratus]

No.

This.

[AdamHarry]

Yes we all know that, we all saw that: soda bottles used as Greater Daemons, keychains as SM flyers and so on.
And often it was plain terrible: proxying was the name of low quality games at worst, worth a laugh at best.

It's not always the case, you know.

Warhammer Proxies! ([url]https://www.facebook.com/groups/535981369814344/[/url]) is a Facebook group for "serious proxiers" - hobbyistis who convert and modify toys, souvenirs, cake boxes, burned-out electronic circuits et cetera into Warhammer 40K and Fantasy models.

Sky is the limit for imagination.

We have a lot of ferocious and vocal haters but we do not give up, ever.

Do you wanna give us a chance?

From Google:
Proxy: the authority to represent someone else, especially in voting.
"they may register to vote by proxy"
synonyms: deputy, representative, substitute, delegate, agent, surrogate, stand-in, attorney, go-between
"I am here to vote as Mrs. Carlson's proxy"
-a person authorized to act on behalf of another.
plural noun: proxies
-a document authorizing a person to vote on another's behalf.

Conversion: the act or an instance of converting or the process of being converted.
"the conversion of food into body tissues"
synonyms: change, changing, transformation, metamorphosis, transfiguration, transmutation, sea change; humoroustransmogrification
"the conversion of waste into energy"

Convert : cause to change in form, character, or function.

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The difference between a Proxy and a Conversion, to me, is effort.

Most people have an aversion to Proxies because they show a distinct lack of effort. I have played and have played against Proxy armies. I did this because I was wanting to test something or my opponent wanted to test something. But at some point playing against Proxies becomes unsatisfying (for me at least). If you are the type of person that just wants to play the game and you don't care for the models/painting/hobby aspects/wants to use cardboard tubes as tanks (which is perfectly fine) - then by all means, continue to enjoy the game(s) you play! For many players, those same hobby aspects are the most appealing part of the game (which again, perfectly fine). These two ends of the spectrum butt heads.

From what I have seen the vast majority of gamers falls somewhere on that line of "I don't care if it's grey plastic/cardboard tubes" and "I refuse to play with anything other than fully painted, fully based, 100% [insert model manufacturers name] model" - but for those same people I think it really just comes down to effort. So as to your question "Do you wanna give us a chance?" - Are your conversions believable? Do they fit the theme you're going for? Do they add to the immersion of playing the game? Basically - did you put any effort into it? Or are you just wanting to throw dice and play a game? If you answered yes to any those questions - sure, because I enjoy playing the game and I enjoy the hobby aspects as well. But for me, playing with cool models, fully painted, and on an awesome table is just...better.

[Denzark]

There is a difference between a pure proxy and a scratchbuild or heavy conversion. If the proxy is recognisable for what it stands in for and also is about the right size, then most people would kick off. Now, looking at your site, I have no idea what that cheese grater thing is. If you try and tell me it is a nob biker or a stomper I may have a problem.

And this is the root of people's problems with it.

[Nogle]

I can't see this, guess its because I don't have facebook.

I've started adding khorne deamons to my world eater army as allies/summoning. I'm waiting for plastic hounds, so I was thinking of using fenrisian wolves. also I have 7 thunderwolves I was thinking of using as blood crushers till I can afford the real models. probably have some extra bloodletters I could put on the thunderwolves as riders, Is that ok?

[Pssyche]

No. Not ever.

Massive 30K per team Apocalypse Battle at Easter last year.
One guy on our team had bought an Eldar Phantom Titan specially for the event.
He was on a different part of the board to me, so I didn't clock what was happening.
He moved it forward and it got mugged by some Ork Proxies.
The Proxies were pink plastic poker chips.
The Ork player cheated him into believing his Titan was destroyed.
It was only after the event that it all came to light.
£500+ of model knocked down by BORROWED pink plastic poker chips.

My mate sold his Titan within a week and the rest of his models within a month, because he felt that bitter about it and he's never played since.
And I don't blame him.
He'd put a lot of time effort and money into his hobby and his enjoyment was denied by a cheating, proxying scumbag with no conscience nor sportsmanship about him.
And before anybody says anything about him trying to buy victory, our team's Super Heavies were vastly outnumbered by the Chaos/Ork Axis we were up against.

Nah, no proxying when I'm playing.

[Lord Krungharr]

Some proxies are just stupid, like the little Trolls on that Facebook group standing in for who knows what. Some are very cool and fit in with the 40k or Fantasy environment at large like that Skeletor into Nagash model, which is more of a conversion in my view.

Generally a proxy in games I've played are 'these Blood Angels count as Grey Knights today'. That's acceptable in most cases, though perhaps not on some tournaments. If the model has a meltagun, and someone wants to count as a plasma gun, most of the time I'm okay with that so long as the enemy remembers. But too many things like that are bad, messes up the game.

But substituting plain old toys, even if they somehow fit on the right sized bases, is not cool. Converting toys might be cool, but not always. So yes, I agree, efforts of conversion become something other than proxy models.

[Takerukau]

I am mostly anti-proxy. If you are casually getting together with a buddy and want to proxy something to see if you like how it plays in a test game before buying or covnverting the minis, I think it's cool as long as its not done at a tournament or event, or even casual play among strangers. Playtesting is part of the game, but lame proxy-isms are annoying to deal with, and I would rather not play against someone I don't know who is using a lot of proxy stuff (especially if its unpainted garbage or bottle caps etc. trying to represent cool stuff). Takes a lot of the fun out of the game. I'm pretty picky about bare plastic models on the table too.