When a proxy isn't a proxy

[CoffeeGrunt]

I quite like the idea of using Aerial Hunter-Killers from Terminator as Counts-As Tau Barracudas or something, but then I've loved the design of those since I first saw The Terminator. It's a very sleek model kit at least.

[Arkhan Land]

I personally have built all sorts of wacky creations, luckily just picked up a whole set of 90s Aliens toys for 50 cents a piece, you bet damn right im making another Harridan and a Heirodule. But...

You don't bring a bottle of stove-made rum to the bar. Don't bring anything that's not a real model to the store.
Stay home and drink your cheap-made booze, and play with your converted x-men toys with your friends.

[gensu11]

I don't have a problem with conversions or scratch built models, or the occasional "this melta is a plasma today", but that is about the limit for me. Using WWII models for Ork or Guard can turn out some good looking models, but even then, if you are turning a Sherman into a leman russ, modify it properly so that the hull and sponson weapons are identifiable. The original Apoc book even had a small section on including your non-standard models. I think Apoc is the best place for these kind of models, but I definitely would not play against the example that was given earlier, a squad of plastic poker chips representing an ambiguous Ork threat.

[Adrian R Gosling]

No.

I second this.

[DCompanyChris]

I think you have to separate proxy from conversion from "counts as"

Proxy is a stand in. I'm less cool with a straight proxy because I have to understand what the model coming at me can do, but that of course means its situation specific. Proxy is frequently abused.

Conversions of non GW Models into gaming stuff....it the model is cool looking, and represents the GW model...I'm for it. We have some very creative ork players in my extended group....and the ramschackle nature of ork warmachines is taken to the limit. I know such things can be abused, but that's not what I am talking about...I'm talking about an application of creativity that adds to the feel of the table top. This should be encouraged.

"Counts as" can be my favorite. I love themed armies, and some of the best armies I have ever seen in terms of concept were "counts as" armies. Again I favor the creativity over simple "counts as" which is really just a fancy proxy.

[40kGamer]

I think you have to separate proxy from conversion from "counts as"

Yes! Counts as and Conversions add flavor and if executed well are a work of art.

Proxy = no

[averykess]

Some proxies are just stupid, like the little Trolls on that Facebook group standing in for who knows what. Some are very cool and fit in with the 40k or Fantasy environment at large like that Skeletor into Nagash model, which is more of a conversion in my view.

I believe the Trolls were proxying Trolls. I have no problem with this. It is funny, and you know instantly that those are trolls.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't have a problem with conversions or scratch built models, or the occasional "this melta is a plasma today", but that is about the limit for me....

This is the kind of proxying that bothers me the most. I see a melta now I have to remember it is a plasma, every turn, as does my opponent. At best this is confusing, at worst, it enables cheating.

[Sandrat]

No. Not ever.

Massive 30K per team Apocalypse Battle at Easter last year.
One guy on our team had bought an Eldar Phantom Titan specially for the event.
He was on a different part of the board to me, so I didn't clock what was happening.
He moved it forward and it got mugged by some Ork Proxies.
The Proxies were pink plastic poker chips.
The Ork player cheated him into believing his Titan was destroyed.
It was only after the event that it all came to light.
£500+ of model knocked down by BORROWED pink plastic poker chips.

My mate sold his Titan within a week and the rest of his models within a month, because he felt that bitter about it and he's never played since.
And I don't blame him.
He'd put a lot of time effort and money into his hobby and his enjoyment was denied by a cheating, proxying scumbag with no conscience nor sportsmanship about him.
And before anybody says anything about him trying to buy victory, our team's Super Heavies were vastly outnumbered by the Chaos/Ork Axis we were up against.

Nah, no proxying when I'm playing.

Then you and your friend are gaming for the wrong reasons.

[40kGamer]

This is the kind of proxying that bothers me the most. I see a melta now I have to remember it is a plasma, every turn, as does my opponent. At best this is confusing, at worst, it enables cheating.

I played at a tournament where a player listed what weapons his marines had but did not represent them on the models. He neglected to tell me that he had a magical moveable melta gunner that appeared in the units where and when he was most needed and yet managed to move out of harm's way when it was time to allocate wounds. At some point it just isn't worth arguing with this crap. As irritated as I was with him I blamed the TO for allowing such stupidity at the event. So frustrating.

[The Madman]

None of those are proxies. proxies are to my knowledge stand-ins for a model you don't possess or wish to test out a strategy before investing in the models. proxying at best is using skeletons with spears as skeletons with bows; at worst is a carnifex as drink bottle or a bunch of lego bricks as a squad of men. everything I've seen from your facebook page are conversions of varying effort and skill.