Tyranid Army Book - Warhammer Fantasy Battles Help

[Charistoph]

So Warhammer Fantasy doesn't have a bug race, but Tyranids seem like they would be a perfect fit. One of the first things that needs to be nailed down are the slots and unit types that they translate in to. I would ask for your help in finalizing the final result on this first step:

Unit Name	40K Slot	40K Type	FB Slot	FB Type
Hive Tyrant	HQ	MC	Lord	Monster
Trygon Prim	Heavy	MC	Lord	Monster
Tervigon	HQ	MC	Hero	Monster
Tyranid Prime	HQ	Inf	Hero	Monstrous Infantry
Broodlord	Troop	Inf	Hero	Infantry
Zoanthrope	Elite	Inf	Hero?	Infantry
Warrior	Troop	Inf	Core	Monstrous Infantry
Genestealer	Troop	Inf	Core	Infantry
Termagant	Troop	Inf	Core	Infantry
Hormagaunt	Troop	Inf	Core	Infantry
Ripper Swarm	Troop	Inf	Core	Swarm
Hive Guard	Elite	Inf	Special	Monstrous Infantry
Venomthrope	Elite	Inf	Special	Monstrous Infantry?
Lictor	Elite	Inf	Special	Monstrous Infantry?
Pyrovore	Elite	Inf	Special	Monstrous Beast
Ravener	Elite	Beast	Special	Monstrous Beast
Sky-slasher	Fast	Jump Inf	Special	Swarm
Gargoyle	Fast	Jump Inf	Special	Infantry
Carnifex	Heavy	MC	Special	Monster
Biovore	Heavy	Inf	Special	Monstrous Beast
Haruspex	Elite	MC	Rare	Monster
Shrike	Fast	Jump Inf	Rare	Monstrous Infantry
Harpy	Fast	FMC	Rare	Monster
Hive Crone	Fast	FMC	Rare	Monster
Trygon	Heavy	MC	Rare	Monster
Mawloc	Heavy	MC	Rare	Monster
Exocrine	Heavy	MC	Rare	Monster
Tyrannofex	Heavy	MC	Rare	Monster
Tyrant Guard	HQ	Inf	Rare	Monstrous Infantry

So, thoughts on adjustments? It's a huge list, I know, and some trimmings may need to come in to play here and there, but this is the starting point to work with.

[Charistoph]

After some responses on other sites, I've made some adjustments.

To help me provide some perspective, I went through and made a list of each army's non-Special units according to Role to give myself limits to how much to include. Here are the numbers:

	Lords	Heroes	Core	Special	Rare
Fewest	2	2	3	5	2
Average	3.5	4.2	5.1	7.9	4.8
Median	3	4	5	8	5
Most	9	9	9	10	8
Total	51	62	76	120	77

So this gives me numbers to shoot for and limit myself to. Unfortunately, it leaves me rather over budget on Rares, and pretty close on Specials. I've refined the list a little and will present it below after the responses.

I've relisted the units in to "families" or "Brood-lines" to help me strip down the list and refine it.

Okay, here's my revised list, Special Characters have been left out:

Unit Name	Category	Troop Type	Brood-line
Hive Tyrant	Lord	Mo	Alpha
Trygon Prime	Lord	Mo	Burrower/Alpha
Zoanthrope Prime	Lord	MI	Floater/Wizard
Warrior Prime	Hero	MI	Alpha
Zoanthrope	Hero	MI	Floater/Wizrd
Broodlord	Hero	In	Scout/Skirmisher
Hormagaunt	Core	WB	Scuttler
Termagant	Core	In	Scuttler
Ripper Swarm	Core	Sw	Swarm
Warrior	Special/Core*	MI	Alpha
Genestealer	Special/Core*	In	Scout/Skirmisher
Tervigon	Special	Mo	Breeder
Venomthrope	Special	MI	Floater
Biovore	Special	MB	Artillery
Ravener	Special	MB	Burrower
Gargoyle	Special	In	Scuttler/Flyer
Carnifex	Special	Mo	Brute
Lictor	Rare	MI	Scout/Assassin
Hive Guard	Rare	MI	Guardian
Shrike	Rare	MI	Alpha/Flyer
Haruspex	Rare	Mo	Brute
Hive Crone	Rare	Mo	Flyer
Mawloc	Rare	Mo	Burrower
Exocrine	Rare	Mo	Artillery

So with this list, here's how the changes work:
* The Hive Tyrant will still have Wings as an option, but the Trygon Prime will be his Burrower version.

* The Warrior Prime will have options to get Wings and a snake body to become a Shrike or Ravener Prime.

* Tyrants and Warriors will be able to bring Warrior Broods in to Core.

* Broodlords will bring one units of Genestealers in to Core, while Deathleaper brings all of them to Core.

* Zoanthropes will be the Wizards. I just couldn't bring myself to have MI Horrors in this army. It didn't quite feel right. However, they'll have access to the rulebook Lores while the other Psykers will only have access to the Hive's Lore.

* The Sky-slashers become an upgrade of the Rippers by adding Wings. It may be crazy powerful, but if I put the price right, it should be balanced.

* The Biovore will actually start out as the Pyrovore, at least, weapon-wise, but be upgraded from a flame-thrower to a stone-thrower.

* The Harpy and Hive Crone will be combined in to one using the Crone's name, as there are already harpies in the game and they are much smaller. Much like the Biovore, much of this will be weapon changes that make the difference. The same goes for the Trygon and Mawloc being combined and the Exocrine and Tyrannofex being combined. The names may come back up as an upgrade if the stats are sufficiently different to justify them. But this was the best way to reduce the number of choices to a more reasonable and manageable level.

I think I'll use Instinctive Behavior and Synapse in a way similar to how Animosity and Vampires work, creating limits and bonuses for the army, and allow for Synapse to be be Inspirational Presence as well.

I don't think I'll let Synapse make them Unbreakable like 40K and thus require Unstable to be balanced. I think that because of how Fantasy works, and just the innate nature of the Tyranid style, Synapse may actually replace Musicians as well. A bug blowing a horn or beating a drum doesn't quite work, but we could add a Thumper as mutation to replicate its use?

[Charistoph]

Okay, moving on to the next stage, WEAPONS!

Let's start with the Melee Weapons, since they are much fewer, and much easier.

Weapon	Strength	Special Rules
Scything Talons	User	Additional Attacks
Rending Claws	User	Armour Piercing
Bonesword	User	Killing Blow
Lash Whip	User	Swiftstrike
Crushing Claws	+1	Armour Piercing, Always Strikes Last, Multiple Wounds (D3)
Prehensile Pincer	User	Tail Weapon
Toxinspike	1	Tail Weapon, Poisoned Attacks
Thresher Scythe	4	Tail Weapon, Armour Piercing, Swinging Blow
Bone Mace	8	Tail Weapon, Always Strikes Last
Acid Maw	5	Ignores Armour
Toxic Miasma	3	Poison Cloud, One Use only, Always Strikes Last

Swiftstrike: Attacks with this weapon are made at +3 I.
Tail Weapon: A model bearing a weapon with this rule may make an additional Attack in addition to its normal attacks. This attack is made with the profile of the weapon provided and can be made against model in base contact to the model's Rear. If this attack is made to the Front, it Always Strikes Last.
Swinging Blow: A model carrying a weapon with this rule may choose to hit all models models in base contact to the front. If on a Tail Weapon, the player must choose if this Attack is against models to the front or rear.
Poison Cloud: An attack made with this weapon will hit all enemy models in base contact with the provided profile and is considered a Poisoned Attack.

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So, that's how I'm targeting it. Some of it is nerfed by 40K standards, but there aren't Land Raiders, Monoliths, and Leman Russ Tanks, either.

I'm debating on giving the Crushing Claw two modes. One will be normal I use and Multiple Wounds (D3) and the other will be ASL and Multiple Wounds (D6).

[Ben Manyhats Charleston]

I don't have any suggestions to offer, but I just wanted to say, keep it up, dude! This is really interesting!

[mbielsk]

Great stuff! Keep it comming! Have you thought about point costs?

[Charistoph]

Great stuff! Keep it comming! Have you thought about point costs?

Not quite, yet. As I mentioned, I've made a little matrix that will help me with that, a little. I'm going to worry about that when I finalize weapon loadouts and statistics.

One of the hardest ones will be the Carnifex. Str 9 is VERY powerful in Fantasy (and quite rare), and unless I want to drop it back to Rare and swap it with the Haruspex, I will need to step it back a little.

Oddly enough, one of the things that is causing me some fits is how to work the Devourer and Deathspitter. They can be quite common on the 40K models (especially the Devourer), but a Str 4, Multi-Shot (3) weapon, even range 18", is rather powerful, but available as default on the Warriors and an upgrade on almost every classic unit. I may just need to hold back on its availability to Champions, Heroes, and Lords, but even then it's quite strong. Multi-Shot (2) may be better...

[PaladinSL]

Oddly enough, one of the things that is causing me some fits is how to work the Devourer and Deathspitter.

I don't really know WHFB very well, but my first thought was basically along these lines, Tyranids are capable of being built in an incredibly shootie manner and I haven't ever seen a WHFB army with that sort of shooting.

Other than that, she's coming along nicely, top work mate!

[Charistoph]

I don't really know WHFB very well, but my first thought was basically along these lines, Tyranids are capable of being built in an incredibly shootie manner and I haven't ever seen a WHFB army with that sort of shooting.

Yeah, that level of shooting is usually limited to magic, War Machines, or Rare Monsters. The closest weapons that have Multi-Shot available to regular units are the Brace of Pistols, Dark Elves' Repeater Crossbows, Lizardmen Blowguns, and Empire's Repeater Handgun (which oddly is Multi-Shot (3) that MIGHT make me feel better).

[Anggul]

Rather than making up a 'Zoanthrope Prime' I would just have the Hive Tyrant performing the dual roles of combat and wizard lord because that's what they do.

I guess synapse creatures will grant immune to psychology and unbreakable to units in 12". That's going to be pretty immense in Fantasy.

[Charistoph]

Rather than making up a 'Zoanthrope Prime' I would just have the Hive Tyrant performing the dual roles of combat and wizard lord because that's what they do.

The reason I included/created the Zoanthrope Prime was that the Zoanthrope line would have access to BRB lores as well as the Hive's, while any other that would be Psykers would only have access to the Lore of the Hive Mind. This difference more than makes up the difference, I believe.

I guess synapse creatures will grant immune to psychology and unbreakable to units in 12". That's going to be pretty immense in Fantasy.

That's one option, if I want to make them exactly like 40K, but that would mean that anything in Synapse would have to be Unstable as well. As it is, many things will have to be toned down, so instead of being Bug-Undead or Bug-Daemon, I want it to operate a bit differently.

As I said at the end of Post #2:
"I think I'll use Instinctive Behavior and Synapse in a way similar to how Animosity and Vampires work, creating limits and bonuses for the army, and allow for Synapse to be be Inspirational Presence as well.

I don't think I'll let Synapse make them Unbreakable like 40K and thus require Unstable to be balanced. I think that because of how Fantasy works, and just the innate nature of the Tyranid style, Synapse may actually replace Musicians as well. A bug blowing a horn or beating a drum doesn't quite work, but we could add a Thumper as mutation to replicate its use?"