British Politics Thread.

[Denzark]

Separate issue from immigration that, as again, it presumes the immigrants coming in have got cars and are using those roads. Otherwise, they don't add to the congestion along those motorways any more than myself with my lack of driving license and weekly bus ticket adds to the traffic in my town.

CG there is an entire difference between 'refugees' who presumably come here with nothing and 'economic migrants' who come here with cars.

Owning a car implies a certain level of income, often gained from work, and thus taxes are being paid into the economy.

It is very simplistic to say that immigration is good - or bad - just dependant on how much goes into the treasury. Even if there was a net benefit from migration, some elements of infrastructure at some parts of the country can be unduly affected by constraints caused by immigration. Even if the treasury gets more from immigrants than it gives back, it doesn't mean my local NHS authority spends an inordinate amount of money (any amount above £0.00 is inordinate in this case) translating all documentation into Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian, Hungarian etc. You have heard of the 'postcode lottery' for medicines, right? It is not unreasonable for any part of society to think that even if the treasury would take in less tax receipts centrally, that their community locally would benefit from less immigration.

yup, if the point was simply ailing infrastructure, then that is all he had to say, there would be no reason to bring up immigration at all. there us no context denial going on, what he said was silly, as it is every time he opens his mouth, no matter what else he says.

You have already written off everything he says, so you can hardly comment in a balanced fashion on him, can you? And just because you're all right Jack, living in Manx heaven where unrestricted EU movement does not bite so hard into local resource, doesn't make one a swivel-eyed loon for wanting numbers down in their part of the world.

[Wolfshade]

yup, if the point was simply ailing infrastructure, then that is all he had to say, there would be no reason to bring up immigration at all. there us no context denial going on, what he said was silly, as it is every time he opens his mouth, no matter what else he says.

The issue isn't ailing infrastructure, though it is true that there are far far more foreign vehicles on the roads now then say 10 years ago.
The amount of road users is going up and up and one cannot simply build your way out of congestion. You need to have a modal shift in the methods of transport.

[Denzark]

I wouldn't want to cycle on the M4 though Wolfy...

[Wolfshade]

I wouldn't want to cycle on the M4 though Wolfy...

No, I'm not sure I would either and I think that it is important that we keep "strategic roads" free of horse, bike and tractor etc.. Though I am sure we can find a couple of examples with the help of google.

But what I mean is that, because bus and train are both really expensive and really uncomfortable most people choose to travel by car, the exception being london.

I also think that what I picked up as the salient point wasn't what everyone else was talking about...

[CoffeeGrunt]

I was pointing out that immigration is a separate problem to transport infrastructure. Yes, our infrastructure needs to improve dramatically, but we have to balance building more bypasses against environmental concerns, against farmers who own the land that bypass will roll through, villages who don't want the noisy traffic nearby, etc. I can't help but imagine Farage being the type to decry our transport because of immigration one minute, then appearing supporting a village fighting a local bypass route the next, blaming the expansion requirements on immigration.

It's an empirical fact that more British people are buying British cars to drive on British roads in [URL="http://racfoundation.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/number-of-vehicles-in-uk-hits-new-high/"]constantly-increasing numbers[/URL]. It's been going on since WWII, as we went into the era of the family car, then the "mummy's car and daddy's car" setup, and now you get some households with a teenager's car on top of that. Many of the drivers start at 17 and don't stop driving until they drop, and the facilities for disabled drivers have improved drastically over this time, adding yet another variable into the equation.

Additionally, the increase is also down to female drivers working more, for longer, and in greater numbers.

[Mr Mystery]

Biggest issue?

The School Run.

As many will have read before, I get a coach from home to Canary Wharf. We go up the A21 (clear), onto the M25 (clear), then A2 all the way to Blackwall Tunnel. Oh boy. Soon as you hit the A2 - school traffic up the wazoo.

How do I know to pin it on school traffic? Elementary - when the school's are on holiday, the roads are massively quieter - I'll take about an hour getting in instead of 2 hours.

And when it's raining, or may rain later? You'd be forgiven for thinking children have suddenly become soluble or otherwise water reactive (a bit like Potassium).

Combine this with a general underfunding and overcharging on public trasport being run for profit? And it's a perfect storm for terrible traffic.

[wayne williams]

just a personal comment on the state of our roads and infrastrucutre.
As a 40 odd year old male iv gotten used to the funny looks and comments when i explain that i do not drive . i have always gotten to where ever i have needed to get to by publick transport or walked. over the years i have noticed the reliabilty of buses go from very regular to almost none existant and the trains . well i always caught the one before the one i needed to make sure i got to work on time regularly.

but the main point is i am now having to learn to drive against my best wishes. by not bieng a driver cost me promotion in my job and has recently resulted in a major part of my bieng re assigned to a lesser position when my company restructured its managment style .it has now become mandatory to be a driver in my line of work ( as a specalist nurse / carer ).
this means that on top of my wife having a car , my eldest daughter having a car i to will need to own and drive a car as well some time in the neer future. its this pressure on top of everything else wich is making the for to many people on the roads . as there are many who would not drive if they did not have to bieng given no choice.

[Psychosplodge]

I can believe that. In my first job the store manager applied for the area manager position and was told it was pointless interviewing them as they didn't drive, and this was over a decade ago.

[Wolfshade]

I wonder if farage's comment was meant as a joke, or in relation to immigration of adults is happening faster than the birthrate 18 years ago.

Of course, get a motorbike, they are cheaper to run and have hihger journey time reliability.

[Path Walker]

I wonder if farage's comment was meant as a joke, or in relation to immigration of adults is happening faster than the birthrate 18 years ago.

Of course, get a motorbike, they are cheaper to run and have hihger journey time reliability.

No, i think he was utterly serious and truly believes it to be the case, he also seemed to believe that the British born children of migrants should be classed as migrants, which would include his own children, and so would be repatriated under a UKIP government that severs ties with Europe.

He's an idiot who things because he went to a public school and worked as a banker in the City, that his ill-informed opinions carry weight, because other ill-informed people agree.