British Politics Thread.

[Denzark]

Sort of my point at #1110 above MM...

[CoffeeGrunt]

I fully agree. In the long term and at a large scale, the Middle East and Africa need to be cooperated over for the betterment of everyone. It'll be a hell of an undertaking to do so, but if we make these countries safe places to live and prosper, then we won't have this refugee influx.

But it's too late for prevention, the consequences of us hand-wringing and waving it away as someone else's problem are here, and have been coming across for a while now. In the long term, yes it'd be better for everyone if we stabilise these volatile regions, but ultimately we need a short-term and expedient solution to this refugee crisis. They, need a quick solution to their plight.

Whether we take them on and look after them until they can be deported to a safe home, or whether we take them in and integrate them, we need to do what needs to be done to make these people safe and healthy. That matter, of saving lives, should come first and foremost. Then afterwards we can consider the political and financial ramifications, and work out a plan to get them back home.

[Mr Mystery]

More importantly, when helping to stabilise the regions, it needs to be done for their benefit, not our own.

Would make a pleasant change to the West's typical approach.

[Deadlift]

More importantly, when helping to stabilise the regions, it needs to be done for their benefit, not our own.

Would make a pleasant change to the West's typical approach.

Western countries are at least doing something, I find it odd that the other Islamic countries in the region aren't offering aid to the Syrian refugees at all. What abou Russia or China ? Nothing ? Before people decry western countries for lack of action. Think of the non existent aid coming from elsewhere.

[Wolfshade]

The situation's too complex to really just throw bombs at, though. Not to mention that Western Interference is only going to rile up the more extremist elements and make their recruitment that much easier. Not only that, but how long before the replacement government collapses to something like ISIS, and how long will said war drag on with how many civilian casualties? If we move in, do we take on refugees as consequence for our actions, or tell them to wait at our borders until we finish shooting all the Bad Guys?

Really depends what you want the outcome to be.

Consider the cities in the late 1800's, the problem was people were dying as a result of living in slum conditions.

Most cities response was to clear the slums, that resolved the issue of people dying in them as a contemporary of the time quipped (IIRC) “Where there's no person living no person can die.”

So we must be very clear on the outcomes that we actually want, since crudely turning the region into glass will resolve the crisis. Though I doubt any one would be an advocate for that "solution".

Let us not forget Syria wasn't terrible before the arab spring, it is the response to an attempted coup. Most of us would expect our governments to put down a rebellion one way or another.

Maybe they just need to hug it out...

[Mr Mystery]

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34181475]Well, that escalated quickly[/url].

Full picture is of course not known yet, so lefty liberal as I am, I'm reserving judgement until we can tell if the evidence of their planning attacks within the UK is actual evidence, or WMD type evidence.

But a significant, and potentially terrifying step has been taken.

[Psychosplodge]

Did it?
If I'd found out they didn't kill them when they had the option I'd be questioning why not.

[Mr Mystery]

And there's the rub.

If you know someone is not just planning, but genuinely capable of a terrorist attack and do nothing - you're incompetent.

If you rub them out - you're a murdering tryant.

And hey - there so far seems no attempt at pretending they weren't specifically targeted. Being modern Government I'm fairly confident there's spin there somewhere - but to say 'yes we did, and we told you why' is something of an improvement to poncing around the issue neither confirming nor denying.

[Psychosplodge]

I'm genuinely surprised at the reaction of the labour politicians considering their recent history.

[Mr Mystery]

It is the job of the official opposition to finger point though.

I'm really torn on this one. I'm kind of worried Britain has suddenly jumped to authorising execution of her subjects in foreign countries. But at the same time, my normal rational approach, and generally trusting nature is confident this won't have been done on a whim, and there has likely been solid evidence.

For those catching up via this thread - this isn't a case of 'shouldn't be in that area if you don't want Droned' - these were specifically targeted attacks on UK Citizens by their Government.

I'm not losing any sleep over their demise - and I hope the same happens to the rest of ISIL or whatever they're calling themselves today - but this is still a big, big step taken by Her Maj's Government.