British Politics Thread.

[Mr Mystery]

I’m going to write something here that may be contentious. Before I do, let me caveat that I am a Tory voter, not a UKIP supporter.

But here I go:

UKIP supporters -

They are not all racists or bigots. Some of their concerns are genuine based on the massive effect that immigration, especially Eastern European, has on the limited infrastructure in rural communities.

With regards to getting out of Europe:

If you listen to Farage, he specifically says he is not about cutting the UK off from Europe – he is about accessing the rest of the world.

The idea that the EU has changed beyond all recognition from what we joined 40+ years ago and therefore another vote should be had, is not bad – it is actually pure democracy and to deny the country that is to patronisingly assume the populace isn’t capable of making such a decision.

The idea that the economy will crash if we pull out is bonkers.

Finally – to assume wrongly that all UKIP supporters are racist or bigots, represents a form of intolerance and prejudice that I find equally as distasteful as that displayed by the handful of racists and bigots that do support them.

Oh and Kirsten, to say that there are no UKIP supporters in the face of poll data that shows bigger support than for several other ‘mainstream’ parties, is frankly ridiculous.

For the sake of internal consistency, care to remind the class how you referred to SNP voters?

[Path Walker]

Accessing the rest of the world is nonsense, Farage advocates a free market economy and is using lies about immigration to try and get it, his policies are based on the entirely fictional idea that we could negotiate a way our of the EU keeping all the benefits but getting rid of the obligations, its insane and impossible.

There are no real UKIP supporters because UKIP don't actually stand for anything

[Kirsten]

UKIP had a brief spell of popularity at a point where it didn't matter. their only MPs are people who were already popular where they were. now that elections that matter are approaching fast, their popularity is fading rapidly, nobody wants to be associated with a far right group.

[Denzark]

For the sake of internal consistency, care to remind the class how you referred to SNP voters?

I don't remember although I would full concede it probably would have been dripping with bigotry and prejudice.

That is the difference between me and a lot of 'enlightened' commentators who stereotype 100% of UKIP voters as one thing or another. I am an honest bigot, they (not 100% but a lot) would never get even the gentlest whiff of hypocrisy about castigating UKIP for allegedly writing off 100% of one group (foreigners) as bad - but then similarly writing off 100% of UKIPers as bad.

Anyhow SNP and UKIP have exactly the same motivation. They both want what is best for their country and think there should be a democratic exercise to ratify that option by the electorate. The difference is that UKIP haven't had that option.

Accessing the rest of the world is nonsense, Farage advocates a free market economy and is using lies about immigration to try and get it, his policies are based on the entirely fictional idea that we could negotiate a way our of the EU keeping all the benefits but getting rid of the obligations, its insane and impossible.

There are no real UKIP supporters because UKIP don't actually stand for anything

Without wanting to debate my understanding of UKIP's policies is against your understanding PW, I will simply say there are 'credible' polls by which I mean ones that a large proportion of political commentators think give credibility, that disprove the first piece of your last sentence; the UKIP manifesto disproves the last.

[Path Walker]

I don't remember although I would full concede it probably would have been dripping with bigotry and prejudice.

That is the difference between me and a lot of 'enlightened' commentators who stereotype 100% of UKIP voters as one thing or another. I am an honest bigot, they (not 100% but a lot) would never get even the gentlest whiff of hypocrisy about castigating UKIP for allegedly writing off 100% of one group (foreigners) as bad - but then similarly writing off 100% of UKIPers as bad.

Anyhow SNP and UKIP have exactly the same motivation. They both want what is best for their country and think there should be a democratic exercise to ratify that option by the electorate. The difference is that UKIP haven't had that option.



Without wanting to debate my understanding of UKIP's policies is against your understanding PW, I will simply say there are 'credible' polls by which I mean ones that a large proportion of political commentators think give credibility, that disprove the first piece of your last sentence; the UKIP manifesto disproves the last.

Writing a manifesto of things you have no ability or interest in delivering isn't the same as standing for something, see also Tory Party. So far, UKIP have said they'd save 17 Billion by reducing foreign aid and leaving the EU, even ignoring how much EU gives us, they're in a massive black hole with all their promises, massively reducing tax and abolishing inheritance tax on top of spending more on the military and all the little nonsensical ideas they have?

[URL="http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people"]http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people[/URL]

Seriously, its wacky bull**** for idiots and racists. Except for the few sneaky libertarian ****tery bits hidden in there, repealing the Agency Workers Directive, coming out of the European Court of Human Rights, removing laws that "hamper British competitiveness" are all basically about ****ing over the working people in favour of the business owners.

[Kirsten]

yup, independent groups have demonstrated that it is totally impossible to fund UKIPs policies even a little bit.

Nasty Nige's hatred of Europe hasn't stopped him claiming vast sums of money from them either.

Has there been even a single week in the last two years where UKIP haven't had to defend or condemn someone in their party for spouting bigoted rubbish?

[Mr Mystery]

And let's not forget....increasing renewable energy sources.....but halting wind farms




Erm......1+2=hedgehog, it would seem in UKIPland.

[Path Walker]

Ignoring everything but increasing taxable earnings to 13,000 and abolishing inheritance tax, you're looking at losing over 12 Billion a year (estimating 17 million in employment and using an average inheritance tax of about 2B) , thats all of the apparent "savings" from leaving Europe gone and most of the reduction in foreign aid too, then there is another tax cut as they reduce the Higher rate and introduce another threshold between basic and higher rate tax.

- - - Updated - - -

They pretty much come out and say they're skeptical of climate change in the manifesto. Bonkers.

[Denzark]

Irrespective of the achievability or desirability of their policies/manifesto, to assume 100% of their supporters are racists or bigots is a form of prejudice.

[Psychosplodge]

I didn't realise that was a parody until quite late...

Not a fan of The league of gentleman?

because UKIP don't actually stand for anything

So they've achieved their apparent aim of replacing the LibDems as the third party in UK politics then?