British Politics Thread.

[CoffeeGrunt]

'Facts and figures'

That word facts. Man there is some Ben Kenobi shizzle going on there. 'From a certain point of view' etc.

It depends on whether you think it's worth listening to people who handle that kind of thing daily, or think, "we've had enough of listening to experts."

Personally I wouldn't go to Joe Bloggs down the pub for analysis on my teeth nevermind the macro-economic effects of the UK removing itself from the Single Market with no actual plan for doing so. We still don't have any sign of a plan, by the way. We've set sail without anchor, pointing the boat to the horizon where the navigator assures us there will be the Land of Rich and Plenty, though it isn't on the map and he can't say where it actually is, only that it's, "roughly that way."

[CoffeeGrunt]

[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37177938"]Farage to appear onstage at a Donald Trump rally[/URL].

Make of that what you will.

[Psychosplodge]

He does need a new job, has a proven track record, and Trump keeps losing campaign managers....

[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/comments/4z7qtb/wp_the_illuminati_is_actually_a_gentlemens_club/"]This r/writingprompts thread[/URL] might amuse you though CG on the subject of Trump.

[Caedes]

Caedes - I've fixed that for you.

As to what you could tell, let me offer you a narrative:

Outright/closet racism - a prejudice I find equally as offensive as the prejudice displayed against working class leave voters.

Xenophobia - if by that you mean putting your tribe first and foremost nothing wrong with that.

Nationalism - do you mean patriotism? What's wrong with that?

Greed? Do you mean capitalism? Nowt wrong with that. Do you mean wanting our country to be better off? Nowt wrong with that either. Actually many leavers acknowledged the economy would be worse off in the short term - so how was it greed?

Stupidity? Ah you're one of the prejudiced people I mentioned above.

Fear? I'll accept that - I was fearful we would not have the courage to vote out of a byzantine, unaccountable, corrupt, foreign political entity - luckily that didn't happen.

Hatred? I'm sure there was in some places. For me its merit depends if it is rational or irrational.

Outright lies - both sides put out stuff that went from disingenuous through wrong to lies.

Seriously though can we stop re-hashing this same old crap? Corbyn has been caught out acting like a true British Politician and we want to ignore that in favour of getting back on the merry-go round of EU bollocks?

I tell you what. We joined the EU in 73. Well actually the fore-runner to the EU - no one back then voted for the monster it has become. I make that 43 years ago. If in 43 years from 2 years after triggering Article 50, the country is in a worse state, I'll come backon hear and fully acknowledge all the remainers were so right.

In the mean time could we move away from the EU arguments?

Caedes are you actually a sockpuppet account?

No, I was basing my statement on the state of the economy, the exchange rate collapse and the desperate shoring up completed by the government and the bank of England so no, it isn't an opinion, it is the facts regarding what happened in the wake of the brexit vote.
If you haven't seen the racism that has been used and exposed by the brexit campaign then you must be walking round with blinkers on. Calling out racists isn't prejudice, only an idiot would call it that.
No, I use the word xenophobia as per it's dictionary definition, I would look up the meaning of the word narrative while you are there.
No, I use the word nationalism as per it's dictionary definition, see above.
No, I mean greed, Jesus, you aren't very good with the whole comprehension thing are you. Not wanting to share the opportunity that this country provides with our economic partners in the EU and not wanting to pay our fair share towards the EU are caused by greed.
Brexit regret? I know lots of people that thought they were just registering a protest vote, that was stupid. The fact that the country voted to get out of an EU that left all of us better off (as every economic expert and study showed) was also stupid.
I didn't see any courage from any of it's campaigners because not one of them stood up and told the truth about the effects of brexit.
Oh well, if hatred is rational that makes it ok!? What I saw was hatred of anything that wasn't some picture card caricature of good old blighty.
Every single promise made by the brexit campaign was a pack of lies and they knew it and then had the gall to call the remain campaign project fear. The lies that have been told by the murdoch press for years about the EU is just overwhelming, but don't worry i'm sure foreign billionaires have the interests of ordinary working people at heart!
Well we don't want to think about that lie about the £350million the NHS was promised do we?
No, I am not a sockpuppet account, ooh poisoning the well, any other logical fallacies up your sleeve?

[Psychosplodge]

We have an EU referendum thread where all those points were argued over.

[url]http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?68497-Should-I-stay-or-should-I-go-now-The-EU-Referendum-Thread[/url]

Basically it boiled down to the viewpoints are polarised and there's little middle ground.

[CoffeeGrunt]

We can all agree on Farage being a tw*t though, right?

[Psychosplodge]

To differing degrees I think. He's not quite the antichrist to me, and applying mystery's standards that he applied to salmond post indyref he's Britain's most successful politician. Now that's a scary thought.

[Denzark]

Calling out racists isn't prejudice, only an idiot would call it that.

Jesus, you aren't very good with the whole comprehension thing are you.

Well we don't want to think about that lie about the £350million the NHS was promised do we?

No, I am not a sockpuppet account, ooh poisoning the well, any other logical fallacies up your sleeve?

Wow Caedes you are gift that keeps giving. Seeing as you like good comprehension...

I didn't say anywhere calling out racism was a prejudice. I said racism itself both closet and outright is a prejudice. As equally offensive to me as the prejudice displayed by people who think/assume that sections of the populace voted in a particular way out of stupidity.

The NHS promise... the Brexit campaign was not a sitting government. They had no mandate to make policy. About anything. While you're in the dictionary finding things I should look up, you should acquaint yourself with the difference between a referendum and an election.

Me asking if you are a sockpuppet account is asking for a confirmation of fact - not a statement of one. So how can it be a logical fallacy?

I'm glad you are a fan of comprehension Caedes, I know many people find it easier to improve on things they are weak at when they enjoy it.

[Denzark]

It depends on whether you think it's worth listening to people who handle that kind of thing daily, or think, "we've had enough of listening to experts."

Personally I wouldn't go to Joe Bloggs down the pub for analysis on my teeth nevermind the macro-economic effects of the UK removing itself from the Single Market with no actual plan for doing so. We still don't have any sign of a plan, by the way. We've set sail without anchor, pointing the boat to the horizon where the navigator assures us there will be the Land of Rich and Plenty, though it isn't on the map and he can't say where it actually is, only that it's, "roughly that way."

I had to look up whether economics is a science or not. Wikipedia says it is a social science (whatever one of those is).

The reason I did that is because when a scientist tells me water comprises of 2 atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen, I listen to them. When they say said water boils at 100 degrees c at ground level, I also listen to them. When a mathematician says the equation for radius of a circle is pie R squared (or whatever - got a C at GCSE and will never again use maths I can't find the answer for on my iphone) I listen to them.

But economists... sheesh. Economics is affected by human factors that they don't seem to be able to predict with any reliability. The best French economist didn't predict 72% less Chinese tourists (or whatever the figure is) would visit Paris this year because he didn't know France would be drenched in terror attacks.

The only relevant figures now are those which allow us to maximise our economy as we disengage from Europe. As best as I know, the sitting government hasn't finalised plans for that and negotiated as to where the goal posts are.

To that end, economic 'experts' who didn't tell us that Lehman brothers and sub-prime mortgages would screw us in 2008, are pretty moot to me now. I anticipated a drop in the economy, could afford a drop in (my personal) economy, and think the quickest way for it to get back on track and surpass where it was, is for doom-mongers to keep their opinions under their hats.

[CoffeeGrunt]

This discussion is just going to go around in circles so, yeah. Anyway.