BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum
Page 112 of 236 FirstFirst ... 1262102110111112113114122162212 ... LastLast
Results 1,111 to 1,120 of 2356
  1. #1111
    Occuli Imperator
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mercia
    Posts
    18,062

    Default

    Well that is my issue with the french camps, 'zark.

    They are either asylum seekers who meet the criteria if so france should be granting them asylum. If they fail to meet that criteria then they should be removed as per each countries own guidelines.

    But the french position is very simple, these people don't want to stay in france so why waste french tax payers money removing them or dealing with them.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  2. #1112

    Default

    That's kinda flawed logic, though. Some people probably aim for the UK and Germany because they're much less likely to get thrown back out in those places, or at least that's what the word on the grapevine is. Not to mention they might just get passed along until they reach one of those two, as we're seeing recently.

    The other thing is that the whole movement is pretty disjointed, judging by interviews with refugees. They come from all over, the price varies depending on how you travel as well as demand, and it's simply impossible to place an accurate estimate of how wealthy these people are. Even if you did, it'd be a generalisation. Some people report it taking years for them to travel, others weeks.

    Besides, surely it's more efficient to filter them out once they're here?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also we could play the not-our-problem game with the other nations of the world forever, and the only progress would be the death toll. Whose problem it is can be sorted after you help the people. Get them safe, then start working out who owes who money.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  3. #1113
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Norfolk (God's County)
    Posts
    4,511

    Default

    It just ain't that simple and the conditions of EU/international law granting asylum status, must be applied equally across nations. I don't buy that it is more likely that someone gets thrown out of Italy.

    If we retain criminals in the UK because they successfully argue that returning them to their country runs the risk of them being killed, thus breaching their Article 2 right to life, that equally applies across the EU.

    If you are saying EU countries are ignoring aspects of EU Human rights law pertaining to a crucial aspect, then you are saying the EU is fatally flawed because countries pick and choose what suits.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  4. #1114
    Occuli Imperator
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mercia
    Posts
    18,062

    Default

    It is true that different countries have different asylum laws, as they are defined at the "local" level rather than the UN level. So while all must adhere to the basic tenents of the article 2, how far one goes on that varies.

    [url]https://fullfact.org/factcheck/europe/asylum_eu_easy_or_not-45251[/url]
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  5. #1115
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Norfolk (God's County)
    Posts
    4,511

    Default

    Even if our 'fellow members' may have harsher criteria, that doesn't place a moral obligation on us to pick up their slack. People are truly in danger of death in Syria/Libya. They are not in any nation state in Europe. You just don't get the choice to keep travelling through non-wartorn countries and just happen to choose the one with the blingest benefit conditions to claim asylum - even if other family members have settled there.


    I have absolutely no problem with the idea of activity to crush Daesh and render these homelands peaceful. But to treat symptoms and not cause is barking when we have (according to austerity opponents) increasing (child) poverty and an affordable housing crisis. If we were putting up the 'refugees' in tents, giving them rice, clean water and basic medicines FULL STOP that is one thing - but sure as shizzle they would not be coming here if that was the package on tap.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  6. #1116
    Occuli Imperator
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mercia
    Posts
    18,062

    Default

    No, nor should it.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  7. #1117

    Default

    Yeah, because rolling in and bombing the bad guys away worked so well in Iraq...
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  8. #1118
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Norfolk (God's County)
    Posts
    4,511

    Default

    This is the problem CG.

    The rolling in and bombing the bad guys worked very well - epically well in fact.

    It was the nation building piece afterwards that went to shizzle.

    I am quite sensitive about the distinction as my work requires me to do the first, but the latter is the responsibility of DFID/FCO - the people who get 0.7% of UK GDP to do foreign aid stuff.

    Either way, to leave the root cause of the exodus in place seems counter intuitive to me.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  9. #1119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Denzark View Post
    Either way, to leave the root cause of the exodus in place seems counter intuitive to me.
    The situation's too complex to really just throw bombs at, though. Not to mention that Western Interference is only going to rile up the more extremist elements and make their recruitment that much easier. Not only that, but how long before the replacement government collapses to something like ISIS, and how long will said war drag on with how many civilian casualties? If we move in, do we take on refugees as consequence for our actions, or tell them to wait at our borders until we finish shooting all the Bad Guys?
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  10. #1120

    Default

    What needs to happen is an Arab League lead fight back.

    ISIS, or whatever you want to call them are growing, but they're nowhere near numerous or well armed enough to fight a full on war.

    And it needs to be lead by the Arab League to prevent something even worse replacing them in the power vacuum.

    It may not seem it, but ISIS represent a golden opportunity for the West and the Middle East to work together and produce a more stable future.
    Fed up for Scalpers? https://www.facebook.com/groups/1710575492567307/?ref=bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •