British Politics Thread.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

My education wasn't free. The cost was simply deferred until I became a Tax Payer, at which point I consider myself to be paying it back.

Same with all the times the NHS patched me and sent me on my way.

[Haighus]

Denzark, the NHS was implemented after WWII, but the 2nd Boer war was the first instance in which the British government started to realise it had to do something about the health of it's people, and began implementing some kind of health provision. It led eventually to the creation of the NHS post WWII. More of an initial realisation in which the wheels began rolling for the process.

Anyway, Hunt has decided to impose a contract.

[Wolfshade]

I find it weird that we have a health service which is labelled as 24/7 yet two of those days aren't considered standard working days. I very much doubt that the cleaning staff would expect extra pay to clean the wards on a weekend, it is just a standard working day and I would have hoped that any medic would have sense to realise that if they are working in a hospital setting that that is not a 9-5 business.

I also find it amusing that many people don't trust the government to run it, (if we were in Wales we would be having the same conversation only instead of the Tories, it would be the dreadful things that Labour has done, longer waiting times than those on the other side of the border, worse survival rates etc.). Yet at the same time people don't want it to be run by business. So who does run it?

[Kirsten]

nobody is opposed to the NHS being run seven days a week, not even the striking doctors. they are opposed to it being run seven days a week with the same resources currently used for five. to be open more it will need more staff and a lot more money, which Hunt doesn't want to provide.

cleaning staff would get extra pay for working weekends if they are already working weekdays, because they would be on overtime.

People basically want the government to fund it, and to leave it to the NHS to run itself.

[grimmas]

Yep MPs often confuse their position with other's experience.

Same goes for the other services there are very capable and experienced people people who have achieved there roles by actually being good at it l, running them. When they start telling us government forced changes aren't going to work, changes being suggested by people who don't actually do the job, I think it fairly obvious who we should be listening to.

Also it rather telling that apparently anyone else in a service role need to be doing as a vocation as the warm glow it gives them is something they can live off. Where as MPs get a 11% pay rise and a yearly rise higher than the cap they put in place. And let's face it if anyone needs to doind it as a bl**dy vocation it's the MPs

[Wolfshade]

I wonder if you have ever worked in a 24/7 service environment?

The cleaning staff wouldn't be paid over time for working weekends as it isn't a weekend it is part of their normal working week. The chances are they would have some form of rota system so they do get time off. I mean this is common place, go into a shop at a weekend, does the Saturday staff get paid more than the week day staff? No. It is part of the working week.

The NHS when run by itself is a disaster. It consistently spends outside of its budget. The trusts run their own purchasing and some pay 135% more for identical products than others? How on earth is that best practice? Then there is massive discrepancies between waiting times for similar conditions with similar staffing. There is no consistency and it provides poor value for money.

[Kirsten]

any staff get paid overtime for working beyond their normal working hours. NHS staff work Monday to Friday. to work Saturdays as well, they would need overtime. cleaners who work Monday to Friday get paid overtime for working Saturday. if they work Saturday to Wednesday, they get paid overtime for working Thursday. that is the whole point of the strike. that ****wit Hunt wants the NHS to be open longer, without paying them any more, or giving them any more staff.

[Wolfshade]

any staff get paid overtime for working beyond their normal working hours. NHS staff work Monday to Friday. to work Saturdays as well, they would need overtime. cleaners who work Monday to Friday get paid overtime for working Saturday. if they work Saturday to Wednesday, they get paid overtime for working Thursday. that is the whole point of the strike. that ****wit Hunt wants the NHS to be open longer, without paying them any more, or giving them any more staff.

Why the hell is the weekend overtime? You can bet your bottom dollar the agency cleaning staff will have weekends as normal working days. With a 7 days a week service the weekend are normal working days. Unless I am mistaken then having staff working andays not being paid overtime is cheaper than having fewer staff and paying overtime.
I also doubt that Hunt has any say over whom a hospital hires or fires. If the NHS trust management want more then they can hire more. But the books must be balanced. If the issue is that there isn't enough staff out there well given it takes more than 1 year to train it is clearly a lack of planning in previous governments.
But why would I stay NHS employed if I can do the same job for the NHS but as a contactor and get paid much more.
The NHS isn't the only department that needs to make efficiency savings. My agency needs to make a 20% saving on the budget. The NHS is bloated it has antiquated contracts that need to be resolved as the old way really isn't helping the patients who are statisticallying more likely to die at a weekend.

[Psychosplodge]

I mean this is common place, go into a shop at a weekend, does the Saturday staff get paid more than the week day staff? No. It is part of the working week.

Varies between companies.
Worked in three shops. One paid no extra for saturday, double for sunday(they also paid everyone over 18 the higher minimum wage rate as once you were 18 you could run equipment so are doing the same job as everyone else over 18). One paid time and a third after six, and saturdays, time and half sundays. one paid no extra ever.
The first was a high street 1hour development place, the second a smaller supermarket chain, the last a diy place.

[Kirsten]

Why the hell is the weekend overtime? You can bet your bottom dollar the agency cleaning staff will have weekends as normal working days.

let's say you work a 40 hour week, if you do more than 40 hours one week, then any extra get paid as overtime. the actual days you do your 40 hours are totally irrelevant. doctors have set hours. Hunt wants them to do more hours, which means the excess should be overtime, exactly as cleaners would be. Hunt wants the NHS to be open longer, and for everyone to do more hours, without any meaningful pay rise, and so actually take a big pay cut.

Tories were the previous government, with the Lib Dems, but that isn't especially relevant. if they want an NHS that is open more, they need more doctors, there is no way round that. you can't change the hours of the NHS now, you need more staff in place first, then you can change the hours. efficiency savings are not relevant to this situation, this is about the ******* Hunt wanting to **** over doctors.