British Politics Thread.

[Kirsten]

I have seen arguments for and against austerity, both can be put forward convincingly by various economists. but you can only spend your way out of a slump if you actually have money. Greece have none, so austerity is the only option they have.

[Mr Mystery]

Right now, I think it's fairly appropriate. I truly get the need to live within our means.

But as mentioned many times in my posts, it's all just so lopsidedly done.

[Morgrim]

They seem to be living within their means right now, but the interest payments are killing them. In which case I wonder why the bank they owe money to isn't willing to work with them on that; surely "we will get our original money back and inflation, but maybe not a profit" is better than "we will make a loss".

[daboarder]

They seem to be living within their means right now, but the interest payments are killing them. In which case I wonder why the bank they owe money to isn't willing to work with them on that; surely "we will get our original money back and inflation, but maybe not a profit" is better than "we will make a loss".

because Germany and France are playing sillybuggers with them. and basically pandering to local popularist politics rather than trying to fix the issue

[Mr Mystery]

They seem to be living within their means right now, but the interest payments are killing them. In which case I wonder why the bank they owe money to isn't willing to work with them on that; surely "we will get our original money back and inflation, but maybe not a profit" is better than "we will make a loss".

It's more than just Greece though. Spain, Italy and to a lesser extent Ireland all have large debts to the ECB.

And they're not living within their means at the moment. From what I've read, they still have issues collecting tax etc.

There's a bloke on BBC news at he moment going on about how the crash of the Euro has seen exports in Europe surge, and those additional profits outstrip the amount lent to Greece. However, he's the type to shout during an interview despite nobody actually arguing, just asking him to explain the viewers, so I'm inherently suspicious!

[Denzark]

The whole foundation of the EU is built on lies which are now being exposed. The Greek economy did not meet the requirements for membership but their government at the time lied about it and the EU swallowed it because it played to what the federalists wanted.

The EU can never work as designed until there is a united fiscal policy, and this can only be done with a federal single government. The guarantor of peace in Europe is NATO, which I do believe in. However, whilst we want our taxes to pay for stuff other countries don't have (a whole range of stuff from Nukes to NHS) we can't default to some external government.

Now we are at the stage when we are shown a central bank with the ability to control cash is what is needed. Luckily enough people ignored the Euro in this country that we are not biting that shizzle sandwich.

It is a sad indictment that EU members are considering humanitarian aid for the greeks, rather than wiping out their debt - as we did for West Germany in 1953...

[Mr Mystery]

Meh. They ran their own economy at a massive deficit, and now aren't keen on addressing that and repaying their creditors.

Meanwhile, in Blighty....

It's Budget day. Again. And the first 100% Conservative Budget for a long, long time.

Expected stuff.....

£12 billion worth of cuts, but spread over three rather than two years.

Inheritance Tax upped to an initial £1,000,000 threshold. Of this I fully approve. With house prices being stupid in the UK, Inheritance a Tax needs to be upped accordingly, which it hasn't in a long old time.

Rumours that income tax thresholds are also going to go up again. And yep, hard to disapprove of that one, as it puts money directly in my sky rocket,

Cuts thing? Depends where and how they're made.

[Mr Mystery]

Right let's have a quick recap of what we know, or what we think we know, is coming up in the Budget:

- The Student Maintenance Allowance looks set to be scrapped

- Tax credits face changes with limits for families with more than two children

- Social housing tenants earning more than £40,000 in London and £30,0000 in the rest of the country will be expected to pay market rents

- The benefits cap is to be lowered to £23,000 in London and £20,000 elsewhere

- The chancellor is expected to increase the threshold at which the 40% rate of tax kicks in

- There's a good chance Mr Osborne will also increase the personal allowance from £10,600 earlier than anticipated

- Some people are suggesting the chancellor could even merge National Insurance and income tax

- It's expected the chancellor will increase the inheritance tax threshold to £1m

- And it's likely that the Right to Buy scheme will be extended to tenants housing associations

- Finally, we already know that the government will amend Sunday trading laws

- And the BBC will have to pay for free TV licences for the over 75s starting in 2018

Some stuff I think is morally dubious, but most is alright with me.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Seeing as I went off on him a bit in another thread, here's a thrown bone - Denzark is actually right on what Greece needs, which is a debt restructure deal (ie. some of it should be written off). At the moment it is not possible for Greece to repay its debt even at the most optimistic estimates (per the IMF). Greece's creditors have already effectively lost their money. The best thing to do is give the Greek economy a fighting chance to restart (and carry out necessary reforms, like tax collection) and alleviate the social crisis by writing off some or all of the debt. A functioning Greece is good for the rest of Europe (they buy and make things, and who doesn't like feta and olives? Even Germans!), and far better than one in total disarray, slaving to struggle to meet just the interest repayments on an amount of money so preposterous it's effectively not even real. Keeping the squeeze only empowers the most vicious parts of Greek society, too. Nobody wants Golden Dawn.

Oh, and you absolutely can - should - spend your way out of recession. Read Keynes! The time to restructure is when the crisis is over and there's money in people's hands, not before. This is why the likes of the USA and Germany recovered fine from the last crash, whereas Britain lurched into a double-dip.

National economies are not like households. You absolutely can spend money you don't have - that's the basis of successful economies the world over. You think the United States got rich by paying its debts?

Oh, and on the Budget: Gideon's "living wage" malarkey is amazingly cynical but undoubtedly good politics - I mean, it's testament to how cowardly and feckless Labour are that the Conservatives have outflanked them utterly on this one. Shame it's a ****ty deal for a lot of people!

[daboarder]

now now Cap'n

Cant be poking wholes in the imaginations of economic bigots.

and as much as I disagree with his concepts on social welfare, Ill also agree with denzark, greece needs some relief.