British Politics Thread.

[Path Walker]

We don't tend to have Right wing riots in the UK (ignoring frootball) it's the Left that indulges in political violence on that scale. Given the result they are very much a possibility. It is entirely possible that the working class out voters have had their moment though and are quite happy with the panic they've caused so wil get back in their box it Article 50 doesn't get invoked. The Older Brexiters aren't very likely or capable to kick off.

This is silly. Not sure if its ignorance or what, but its not true to say any of this.

We have vast swathes of Far Right idiots. Who often "march" and it often descends in to violence. The EDL, BNP and Britain First and so on are one thing but then you have the actual full on neo ****s like the National Action. whose "marches" (where they're instructed to wear all black, cover their faces and bring concealed weapons) are only stopped by counter protests by anti-fascist organisations arranging for local community groups to counter them.

Left wing marches are largely peaceful affairs, having been on 5-6 in the last year without a single incident, often police involvement and poor tactical responses (like "Kettle-ing" on huge groups and murdering old men walking home from the pub) were what caused the tensions to spill out, since the police have stopped doing silly things like that, there hasn't been anything violence.

[grimmas]

There's lots Poll Tax, welling, J18, May Day (lots of them), Heathrow Third runway, G20, Isreali Embassy, Students protests (numerous), TUC (number of), Anti Globalisation (numerous), Anti capitalism (numerous),G8 and anything the UAF turns up to, million mask March . All filled the criteria for a riot. Yes it wasn't everyone attending but the violence still happens in an attempt to secure political change. There's also a whole raft of other stuff that although they weren't left wing protests exactly were carried out for leftist causes.

Also Path Walker Black Blocs (the masking up and dressing all in Black) is a left wing thing. Yep some right wingers are adopting. Yep the EDL and Britain First are pretty vile accept their Marches don't degenerate into violence unless the UAF turn up to attack them.

Your belief or disagreement in the cause doesn't make the use of violence justified. Also I think you'd find the Death at he G20 occurred after the violence started. A shameful day for the police no doubt but it is notable because it police related deaths at these things are massively rare and to seemingly to suggest it's a common occurrence is a bit disingenuous.

Right wing groups do perpetrate crimes however but generally they are smaller scale and more directed


Apologies I forgot the Fox Hunting Protest. Defo fits for a Riot and I think we can safety call it right wing.

[Kirsten]

Britain First marches always descend in to violence, they are fascist thugs, same for EDL.

suggesting that it is left wing people who riot is rather fanciful. you would also have to consider why such a thing might be, perhaps because left wing people are routinely targeted and hurt most by elitist government policies? right wing people rarely have anything to riot over. still doesn't stop them getting violent.

[grimmas]

Farage doesn't have one. He's not an MP and hasn't got a ghost of a chance of getting Prime Minister. His political future isn't as lucrative as being a scapegoat for Leave.



Loses the Sovereignty argument, too, as we'd have the same relationship with EU Law but no MEPs to vote on our behalf.

As Mystery points out though, Norway is 1/13th of our population.



I don't remember any specifically left-wing riots, unless you're referring to the Student protest, which was simply a peaceful protest hijacked by *ssholes.



[URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-meps-attend-the-fewest-european-parliament-votes-of-any-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html"]In practice UKIP MEPs simply don't attend or vote.[/URL]

Yep joining the EEA would be not in line with either the Leave or Remain groups wishes.

Also I did say "should" and "in theory" In respect of UKIP and other Eurosceptics I fully willing to admit they leave a lot to be desired.

[grimmas]

Britain First marches always descend in to violence, they are fascist thugs, same for EDL.

suggesting that it is left wing people who riot is rather fanciful. you would also have to consider why such a thing might be, perhaps because left wing people are routinely targeted and hurt most by elitist government policies? right wing people rarely have anything to riot over. still doesn't stop them getting violent.

Well I'm not going to argue that the EDL aren't a bunch of bellends but the trigger for the violence is often the intervention of Left opposition groups, UAF and the like. As to the reasons for the more occurances of Left wing political violence (in the form of riot) you may be right but it still happens.

[odinsgrandson]

I can't speak for you lot- but around here, violence is generally perpetrated by groups that feel the most fearful and unempowered- be they right or left wing. And this is whether or not they are oppressed (sometimes they are, sometimes they are simply losing privileges they had taken for granted).

Often, their ideals are on either extreme, and it usually happens when opposition enters into the equation. Protests are almost always a method for the powerless to exert a little power- and the more the group believes that they system ultimately works, the less likely they are to riot.




Anyway, I'm not from your end of the Atlantic, but I'm really interested to know what all of this is about for you.

To what extent do you think Parliament feels the need to follow what the people chose? Is the economic downturn temporary, or is the damage inevitable at this point?


From the outside, a lot of the anti-EU rhetoric is about how you don't want to be like the USA. Which is fine in a lot of ways (we've got our problems) but I think that generically, it is a pretty weak argument (a lot like how our health care system has to suffer because we need to be not like Europe).

Also- did the Prime Minister step down because he can't hold the support of his party? Basically, he had to? I mean, I guess the people called his bluff, right?

It strikes me as odd, because if our President quits when something doesn't go his way- especially if it is likely to lead to a crisis of any magnitude- we'd really hate him for it (history books would be relentlessly unforgiving).

Is this all about immigration? Or is it a large-state vs. small state issues? Or is it about tracing national heritage back two thousand years (European national identities perplex Americans- mostly because our own national identity is tied to the current government).

[Mr Mystery]

Oop....looks like Osborne doesn't want the poison chalice of Tory Leader....

This is all getting very interesting...

[Psychosplodge]

Farage doesn't have one. He's not an MP and hasn't got a ghost of a chance of getting Prime Minister. His political future isn't as lucrative as being a scapegoat for Leave.

Theoretically the entire party is defunct.



Odin'sGrandson, there are many suggested reasons why the PM stepped down, the actions of an honourable man who failed to defend his position, to cowardice after he found himself cornered in a position he never expected to find himself, to an unwillingness to be the one negotiating a withdrawal he doesn't believe in. Personally I learn towards the third one. But I've heard plenty of people calling him a coward.
There's certainly an identity element, but it is in part a backlash by the working class against the middle/political class.

[Mr Mystery]

I think Cameron ultimately did the right thing.

You want out do you? Want to invoke Article 50 eh? Alright, BoJo. In your own time. Mate.

Gosh! Crikey! Blimey!........but mostly 'dammit'

[Al Shut]

I think Cameron ultimately did the right thing.

Without a doubt. If one person thinks he can't get a good deal and one that a good deal is possible it's clear who should be in charge.