British Politics Thread.

[Denzark]

And I keep seeing different numbers bandied about regarding how much Europe 'costs us' each day. usually thrown around by the out campaign, and with no reference made to the benefits we get from being in Europe. In sources suggest we get back what we put in to a factor of 10, all things considered. But no. Just keep on throwing 'scary' numbers around and hope the populace are as thick as the right wing need them to be to get away with their nonsense.

MM - There is a BBC R4 programme, I forget what it is called - but is specialises in debunking the figures behind political statements. The 'Outers' will often quote a figure of £55m per day - which this programme advises is accurate - but represents the pre-EU rebate figure. After the rebate, the figure was assessed to be £35m, which is I believe what I quoted. Whether or not you respect the veracity of the (left biased) BBC reporting - that is my recollection of their academic assessment of the figures.

Yup.

When you've got left and right, it becomes a fight for the middle ground. As I said in this thread, the last choice was Tory, Diet-Tory and FULL STRENGTH INSANITY FLAVOUR EXTREME TORY - or UKIP, as they prefer to be known.

And Corbyn is doing far, far better than 'the establishment' would ever care to admit. Me, I really like his performances at PMQ. He's dignified, and doesn't join in with the mud slinging. This quiet approach really exposes the Hooray Henry hijinx the Tories prefer. Such as having a cheap pop at his suit rather than answer the question....

What is Corbyn actually 'doing' then? You (one not you specifically MM) may consider him to be effective opposition - umm, splitting the party over the Syria vote, and also the Trident shenanigans - but what actually is it he's done that you think is better than the establishment would admit?

Yeah, a lot of the time it seems to be Tories trying to make a quip about him while he sort of waits for them to stop acting like playground children and actually do some bloody politics.

Seeing it makes me wanna barge into Westminster and yell at the useless, overpaid c*nts to actually do their job and fix the damn country.

Question - do we want them to do politics - or do we want them to do 'Governing'? Personally I would rather the sitting government governed. I see absolutely no sign of Corbyn being equipped to do so or being fit to do so - but I would concede he may be a 'good' politician.



MM - I see your picture of Cameron in White Tie. Corbyn wore the same to that function, as did idiot Miliband before him. I personally have nothing against people wearing the correct dress code to any given function - and will do Corbyn the courtesy of drawing no conclusions that he is a 'toff' because he wore White tie.

What are you inferring from showing Cameron in that picture?

- - - Updated - - -

[url]http://www.thecanary.co/2016/03/08/tory-contempt-disabled-people-hits-whole-new-level-force-cuts/[/url]

So hate this country these days.

Not being silly AX - why don't you leave then? I don't stay in the company of people I hate, and I don't go to (let alone live in) countries I hate - with the exception of the various **** holes HM has or may decide to, send me to as part of my job.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

That is a fair question but I'm going to have to apologise as I don't really feel comfortable telling someone I don't know my circumstances as I am too worried about being judged by folk here, it's all pretty personal and complicated and I do not really want to talk about it here, so lets just say I would if I could and maybe oneday ill be able too. Perhaps a forum isn't the best place for me to let off steam anyway, I was feeling pretty emotional and upset that day so should of perhaps kept quiet.

[Denzark]

AX entirely reasonable and I don't mean to pry into your personal business, sorry if my raising the subject aggrieves you.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

AX entirely reasonable and I don't mean to pry into your personal business, sorry if my raising the subject aggrieves you.

No worries, thanks for being understanding. I really appreciate that.

[Mr Mystery]

£35,000,000 per day cost - or a smidge under £13,000,000,000 per year is the cost.

Shame the Out campaign like to gloss over the benefit....

What is Corbyn doing? More people are joining the Labour Party, and he's got massive appeal to those who ever so foolishly were born after 1975, and as a result have watched the systematic dismantling of the State that gave their parents a superb start in life. The same generation that had free University tuition, who proved it was indeed free as they voted for parties and leaders that reduced their taxation, so when their kids hit University age 'oh, sorry petal. We simply can't afford it anymore, you'll just need to suck up a lifetime of debt to avoid dead end jobs. Of course, by 'can't afford' they really mean 'we don't want to pay for it now'

The Tories don't govern. Far from it. All they're doing is lining their own pockets, letting large corporations off tax bills, and blaming it all on the poorest.

My problem with Cameron? It's not his personal privilege - as I've said before, he had no more choice in that than a kid born to junkie parents. It's where he chose to announce permanent austerity. Surrounded by luxury. Simply put, I don't think he's at all the right person to be in charge in times of economic strife. I don't believe any of the current cabinet have ever experienced anything like poverty. Poverty is ****ing horrible. I've been there. I've been homeless and all but unemployed. I got very lucky and got one chance. I took it, and thankfully things have all worked out. Not because of the Government (unless you count them sitting around as the bank's screwed it all up, thus providing me with my current career). They didn't do anything. Local council couldn't give me a place to live any time soon.

I appreciate I'm on a tangent here, but it's because it's something that constantly pisses me off. Before my current job (really quite comfy now, hence the occasional give away around Chrimbo, or when a forum friend needs a wee cheer up) I worked 40 hours a week, and my wage was £13,200 a year. Yet by the time is paid my rent, paid my council tax, bills and bought in food for the month, I had a frankly laughable £150 to myself. Now I don't know your own situation of course, but I can tell you that seriously sucks. To bust your balls all month, and the have next to nowt left over? That's not cool at all, especially when you've got pretty much the cheapest flat in town which was little more than a shoebox (finally moved late last year, and I've now got a very nice two bedroom place, where the front room is near on the size of my previously flat)

It's horrible - yet our Government has never experienced that. Again, I categorically do not begrudge them their lifestyle, but when they make callous cuts, then fail to do anything at all about corporate and personal tax avoidance (because it's only tax evasion if your poor it would seem), they show themselves to either be utterly corrupt, or utterly incompetent.

They're not governing. Instead, their simply inflicting their own political ideals on the country, and consequences be damned, because they are never going to be hit by said consequences, and it's unlikely anyone they know will be either.

Corbyn represents serious change. Nobody in my social group was around for what we're assured were 'the bad old days' of mass strikes etc. But we have lived our entire lives under free market capitalism, and all we've been is screwed, left, right and centre. It's time to see what's on the other side, and it's time for those who gladly took every hand out to start passing some of it back to their antecedents.

Does this mean I'll end up paying more tax now I've finally worked my way to a decent position? I can pretty much guarantee it. But unlike the post-war generation, I don't begrudge that in the least, despite that fact that once again it'll be people in my age group bending over and grabbing ankles - we got nowt out, but will have to start the putting in. If that means my God Daughter benefits? Totally. 100%. Worth it.

[Denzark]

Suffice to say MM, without a tit for tat going into your points, a couple of things spring out. Firstly - in government, having personally experienced something, does not make you the best person to make policy. The Home Secretary does not need to have been a copper. The Defence Secretary has never served in the military. The SofS for education does not need to have been a teacher etc etc until you come to the conclusion that having been on the poverty line does not make you best placed to make economic policy.

As to 'fail to do anything at all about corporate and personal tax avoidance' - well that is patently untrue. If they got even 1p back in back taxes, your statement becomes untrue - and the google tax issue recently was a lot more than 1p. Not the most that could have been paid, but better than nothing and enough to render your statement hyperbole.

[Mr Mystery]

So when a corporation should be paying billions in tax, getting them to pay thousands is a win??

Seriously? [url=http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1704527/Taxman-let-Vodafone-off-6bn-bill.html]Like Vodafone being let off a £6,000,000,000 tax bill?[/url]. Or that Facebook paid less tax than I did for the last tax year?

As for Secretary's for etc....yep. You put someone in charge of Education, why shouldn't the electorate demand that be someone with more experience of teaching than reading Tom Brown's School Days? Same with hospitals, police, armed forces. I wouldn't want someone whose sole work experience has been say, stage acting to head up the organisation I work for (will PM that to you, on account we're asked not to publicise it). They've got no relevant experience. Why should Government be any different?

And that goes for all political parties, not just the incumbents.

[Denzark]

I wouldn't want someone whose sole experience is spending all day drinking Special Brew from under the confines of a donated sleeping bag to head up the DWP - but, trolling aside, that is the system of governance we have - the Civil Service provides politically neutral expertise within the departments, and Ministers set policy in accordance with the democratic mandate of FPTP.

Likewise, I would love all these firms to pay more tax - then maybe my payrise wouldn't be 1% whilst my housing cost goes up at least 2.5% and my elected politicians - Corbyn's lot included - get 10%. But HMRC has to do what is achievable - small steps - unless you suggest all these firms are nationalised with all their assets in this country?

[grimmas]

[url]https://www.politicshome.com/economy-and-work/articles/story/oil-price-slump-leaves-scotland-%C2%A315-billion-black-hole[/url]

Oops good job they lost that referendum.

Good example of patriotism before brains. Now I'm a patriotic sort (and a scoundrel or whatever it's supposed to be th last refuge of) but is going it alone a viable option anymore? Is it just going to make us more vulnerable to the capricious nature of global markets?

[Psychosplodge]

Theoretically it should make us safer as we wouldn't be indirectly propping up the euro when that has troubles.