British Politics Thread.

[Mr Mystery]

That's the thing....there is no coherent plan at all.

They have no idea what we'll actually manage to get agreements wise. And that's reason enough to stay in.

Europe may be flawed, but it has collective bargaining power. Britain on it's own? I'm far from convinced we have anything like the leverage to get a decent deal from the big players

And you watch the Right Wing demand protection for workers be stripped back, and stripped back. After all, we're all in this together. For workers, all in the poop together. For 'wealth creators', all in the trough together. Just depends which 'We' you're part of.

There is simply no logical reason for us to leave Europe, because we stand to lose far, far more than we might gain. Oh we got back sovereignty? Shame about the poopy end of the stick that came from world trade.

If we stay in, we can join in with the current feeling it needs reforms. And we get to watch Farage, Das Daily Fail and The Sun implode with impotent rage at the will of the people.

As I keep saying - would you rather be at the table complaining about the food, or rifling through the bins for scraps? That's what the choice boils down to.

[Psychosplodge]

There will never be reforms mystery, the political elite don't want them, europe works for them, they're just another "we" with their snouts in the trough.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I've always found that it tends to be using H&S as an excuse to not to do something rather than the real reason.

Or just made up like its the reason coffee shops makes luke warm coffee.

Actually, [URL="https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts"]the one about hot coffee was a smear campaign[/URL]. Or at best, a misrepresented story pushed hard by the media.

The coffee was not just “hot,” but dangerously hot. McDonald’s corporate policy was to serve it at a temperature that could cause serious burns in seconds. Mrs. Liebeck’s injuries were far from frivolous. She was wearing sweatpants that absorbed the coffee and kept it against her skin. She suffered third-degree burns (the most serious kind) and required skin grafts on her inner thighs and elsewhere.

On a 79 year-old lady. Who rightly sued for damages because it's America and they don't pay it for you, the money she received is misrepresented, too.

Again, it's surprisingly rare that Health and Safety is used frivolously. For the offshore industry, that sh*t is gospel. It is standard procedure the world-over to kick someone off a rig immediately the moment they make a HSE violation, because in that environment an accident can be catastrophic.

The big thing about modern HSE is that it doesn't sit with its thumb up its jacksy waiting for a crisis to happen, then works on stopping it happening again. It's all about seeing the risk before it kills or permanently injures people.

[Mr Mystery]

There will never be reforms mystery, the political elite don't want them, europe works for them, they're just another "we" with their snouts in the trough.

So absolutely no different than if we had the much vaunted sovereignty then? Because none of the political parties in the UK have much interest in the little man (Corbyn does, but he's hampered by Blairites who won't admit they're Thatcherites)......

This is what's getting my goat. The Out Campaign keep trying to present leaving Europe as some kind of panacea, but can't even be coherent on what we'll do. Boris and co keep changing their future predictions, especially once it's pointed out certain solutions simply take away our influence within Europe whilst still being tied to it.

If that was a business plan, no bank or private individual would back it.

[Kirsten]

yup, we work with a lot of dangerous machinery, and even just doing work that can cause long term injury, like wheeling bins full to the brim with paper. Health and Safety is important, at the very least for a company to be able to say they told staff how to do it properly.

[grimmas]

I think we're in agreement on this one Coffee

[Psychosplodge]

So absolutely no different than if we had the much vaunted sovereignty then? Because none of the political parties in the UK have much interest in the little man (Corbyn does, but he's hampered by Blairites who won't admit they're Thatcherites).......

So scrap democracy.

*shrugs*

[CoffeeGrunt]

Haha, no worries. Again, working in the offshore industry, it's gospel, and it get hammered into you even when you're just onshore staff. There's audits and arguably a bit too much paperwork, but we've - so far - never had a serious on-site accident, and that's nice.

A previous factory job I had vaguely pretended to give a damn about HSE. I worked on the testing section for 10KV Capacitors, and a couple of safety systems failed while a colleague was handling a 3KV one that hadn't been automatically discharged properly.

Thank God he hadn't touched it directly, it was like a damn lightning strike. Everyone got the crap scared out of them, and it's stuck with me since because of how the whole incident was just glossed over and nothing was learned from it.

Place got shut down a couple of months later.

[Denzark]

MM the choice isn't 'stay at table and complain or rifle through the bins' - in that analogy its 'stay at the expensive ---- (insert European food type here) restaurant, with arrogant waiters who dislike you, complaining about the food with absolutely no results, or pop round the corner to eat Indian/Mexican/American where the service and cost is better'.

[Mr Mystery]

Scrap Das Daily Mail, The Scum and prevent Rupert Murdoch from having any influence, and reclaim our democracy.

As for the apparently hated Human Rights Act....at what point should be scrap a system just because like all systems, it's open to abuse? Never mind it enshrines a lot of protections for people. Never mind it's most commonly used for good reasons. Oh no. Captain Hook took the Michael (can't swear, work filter will eat my post!) SO SCRAP THE WHOLE THING! We certainly can't accept that some abuse is inevitable, but the good massively outweighs the bad, can we? (this in general, not a dig at a fellow poster)

- - - Updated - - -

MM the choice isn't 'stay at table and complain or rifle through the bins' - in that analogy its 'stay at the expensive ---- (insert European food type here) restaurant, with arrogant waiters who dislike you, complaining about the food with absolutely no results, or pop round the corner to eat Indian/Mexican/American where the service and cost is better'.

If they're open and willing to serve you, and all their seats haven't been block booked for the next hundred years by customers of the same restaurant whose bins are starting to look mighty appealing....

And does Europe hate us? Or is that just paranoid nonsense peddled by the press? Are the waiters arrogant, or is the person demanding Chips with ENGLISH GRAVY and that no other options should be on the menu because just who won the war anyway SPIRIT OF 66 we used to have an Empire you know cheeseeatingsurrendermonkeysausageeatingkrauts ENGERLUND ENGERLUND ENGERLUND (increased for dramatic affect, not a reflection of opinions expressed in this thread)