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  1. #1

    Default 3000 Dark Elves. New, please help

    Let me begin by saying: I don't (yet) play WHFB

    I have been given some education on the game, and have played a bit but without an army of my own.


    So, here is an idea I'd like to run past everyone.
    Please, let me know what you think.
    Say whatever you like, but please know I'm new and don't fully understand what I'm doing. So saying "That's stupid" isn't helpful. Following that up with "But here is how you can fix it." helps a lot.



    Here is the list I've tooled around with:
    Themes: Fast, Ranged combat
    + Magical Oomph

    3000 points

    Lord: (320)
    Supreme Sorceress (general)
    Level 4 upgrade
    Sword of Anti-Heroes
    Dispel Scroll
    Dawnstone
    Dark Steed
    Lore of Darkness

    Hero: (745)
    Death Hag
    Battle Standard Bearer (Wailing Banner)
    Gift: Cry of War
    Mounted on Cauldron of Blood
    (3 Cauldrons)
    - fast, magical, scythed wheels, causes fear and terror =D

    Core (995)
    (20) Dark Riders, full command, repeater crossbows & Shields

    (20) Darkshards, full command, shields & magic banner (banner of Eternal Flame)

    (20) Corsairs, full command, repeater handbows & magic banner (Banner of Swiftness)

    Special (430)
    (10) Harpies

    (4) Reaper Bolt Throwers (thunderfire cannons)

    Rare (510)
    (20) Doomfire Warlocks, W/ Master
    Soulblight

  2. #2

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    It has been pointed out to me that I've made a major error - and i can only bring 1 cauldron of blood.

    Here is the revised list!


    Lord: (320)
    Supreme Sorceress (general)
    Level 4 upgrade
    Sword of Anti-Heroes
    Dispel Scroll
    Dawnstone
    Dark Steed
    Lore of Dark Magic.

    Hero: (745)
    Death Hag
    Battle Standard Bearer (War Banner)
    Gift: Cry of War
    + Cauldron of Blood

    Core (1400)
    (20) Dark Riders, full command, repeater crossbows & Shields

    (20) Darkshards, full command, shields & magic banner (banner of Eternal Flame)

    (20) Corsairs, full command, repeater handbows & magic banner (Banner of Swiftness)

    (30) Witch Elves, full command & magic banner (Razor Standard)

    Special (430)
    (10) Harpies

    (4) Reaper Bolt Throwers

    Rare (510)
    (20) Doomfire Warlocks, W/ Master
    Soulblight
    Last edited by WarHammerman; 10-02-2014 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Core (1400)

  3. #3
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    Looks good to me. I'd probably have taken one or two more magic users, but then that's just me.
    http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?52423-The-Blood-Pact-Chaos-Homebrew-Supplement&p=472214&viewfull=1#post472214

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katharon View Post
    Looks good to me. I'd probably have taken one or two more magic users, but then that's just me.
    How about I split the Warlocks into 2 squads of 10?


    Here is the updated list, lemmie know YAAY or NUU!

    Supreme Sorceress
    General, Level 4 (Lore of Death)
    Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dispel Scroll, Dawnstone, Dark Steed

    10 Dark Riders
    Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

    10 Dark Riders
    Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

    10 Dark Riders
    Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

    20 Corsairs
    Full Command, Repeater Handbows + Banner of Swiftness

    10 Doomfire Warlocks
    Master, Soulblight

    10 Doomfire Warlocks
    Master, Soulblight

    10 Harpies

    4 Reaper Bolt Throwers

    30 Witch Elves
    Full Command + Razor Standard

    Death Hag
    BSB, Cry of War, Rampager's Standard
    Cauldron of Blood

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarHammerman View Post
    How about I split the Warlocks into 2 squads of 10?


    Here is the updated list, lemmie know YAAY or NUU!

    Supreme Sorceress
    General, Level 4 (Lore of Death)
    Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dispel Scroll, Dawnstone, Dark Steed

    10 Dark Riders
    Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

    10 Dark Riders
    Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

    10 Dark Riders
    Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

    20 Corsairs
    Full Command, Repeater Handbows + Banner of Swiftness

    10 Doomfire Warlocks
    Master, Soulblight

    10 Doomfire Warlocks
    Master, Soulblight

    10 Harpies

    4 Reaper Bolt Throwers

    30 Witch Elves
    Full Command + Razor Standard

    Death Hag
    BSB, Cry of War, Rampager's Standard
    Cauldron of Blood
    Your Supreme Sorceress has wonky items. Magic users (with very few exceptions) are not built for combat, so drop the Sword of Anti-Heroes and do not bother with a Magic Weapon. The best armour save she can get is a 6+, so don't ever bother with the Dawnstone on her either - replace that and the Sword with a Talisman of Preservation. Otherwise, not bad - have her riding with the Warlocks and stay out of combat unless it is against an enemy "light" unit or war machine.

    Dark Riders should almost always be in units of 5, as you are new I am guessing you don't understand the concepts of "chaff", frenzy-baiting, double-fleeing and so on but trust me, they are not a front-line combat unit. Don't bother with full command on them, only the musician is necessary; the standard bearer is nice but entirely optional, while the champion is a waste.

    Don't bother with Repeater Handbows on Corsairs, if you want a ranged infantry unit just take Darkshards instead who will perform far better. If you want to use Corsairs, take them in minimum unit sizes of 25 and give them the additional hand weapons. Drop the champion and keep the musician and standard bearer, also get rid of the magic standard as they really don't need it.

    Warlocks are best either in groups of 5 or units of 16+ with attached characters and a champion, otherwise don't bother with big units or the champion upgrade.

    Split the Harpies up into two units of 5 for the same reasons as why Dark Riders should be in small units.

    The Bolt Throwers are excellent, keep them.

    The Witch Elves are perfect, keep them as well. Your list lacks real punch outside of the Witch Elves and Bolt Throwers, you should consider adding any number of Hydras, Kharibdyss' or Executioners to alleviate this issue.

    Your Death Hag really doesn't want to be the BSB, she dies far too easily and will give up a lot of extra victory points to your opponent. The Cry of War is ok but unnecessary, you mostly take the Death Hag for the Cauldron - if you do keep her as a BSB, drop the Rampager Standard. It is unnecessary and unwanted.

    You have spent way too many points on units at inefficient sizes for their role, I would explain more on that but I am in a bit of a rush, sorry

    Drop 10 of your Dark Riders and take 4 units of 5, cut your Warlocks down either to two units of 5 or one big unit of 20 - though if you do that you will need to put your Supreme Sorceress and a number of Masters and Dreadlords also on Dark Steeds in there.

    You can drop the Harpies as well, you do not need them once you consider how many Dark Riders and Warlocks you have. Anti-chaff and hunting war machines is not an issue for your army as-is.

    Being perfectly honest, your army list does not look anything like a 3000 point Dark Elf list really should. Twenty Dark Riders and 10 Warlocks in six units of 5 each will fulfill your chaff role, and the Level 4 once you make the changes will give you good magic. Otherwise, you have almost zero punch outside of the Witch Elves and Bolt Throwers, and those will drop pretty quickly in a 3000 point game once your opponent realizes they are the only ones that do significant damage. Free up some points and make sure you are doing your calculations correctly, then try and fit a 30+ strong unit of Executioners or a 10+ strong unit of Cold One Knights in, your choice. Throw in as many of those types of units as well as Kharibdyss' as you can, and possibly Black Guard as well.

    I would honestly just drop the Corsairs in favour of either more Witch Elves or Darkshards but that is just me.
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  6. #6
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    Going off of your very mixed theme with lots of Fast Cavalry, here is an army list I devised that you should follow and make modifications to as you see fit so that you can take what you like. As a note, the general advice for almost any army is to take the minimum Core points (so in your 3000 point list, only take 750 points of Core) as generally they are points-inefficient compared to your Special and Rare choices. You can exceed it slightly to fit in some good units but I wouldn't exceed it too much if I were you, try to only go above the requirement by 50 points or so.

    LORDS
    Supreme Sorceress w/ Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Dark Steed
    Level 4 Wizard, Lore of Death

    HEROES
    Death Hag w/ Cauldron of Blood
    Master w/ BSB, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Sword of Might

    CORE
    Dark Riders (5) w/ shields, repeater crossbows, musician
    Dark Riders (5) w/ shields, repeater crossbows, musician
    Dark Riders (5) w/ shields, repeater crossbows, musician
    Witch Elves (35) w/ musician, standard bearer, razor standard

    SPECIAL
    Cold One Knights (10) w/ champion, musician, standard bearer, banner of eternal flame
    Executioners (30) w/ musician, standard bearer
    Cold One Chariot
    Cold One Chariot
    Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Reaper Bolt Thrower

    RARE
    Doomfire Warlocks (5)
    Doomfire Warlocks (5)

    That is 3000 points on the nose and offers not one, not two but three incredibly scary combat units for your opponent to deal with. You have five chaff units that are among the best in their game at what they do, four war machines for dealing with monsters and chaff, a well protected Level 4 Wizard that can scoot around the battlefield using deadly Death magic, an extremely survivable BSB on foot that goes with the Executioners, a Death Hag on a Cauldron of Blood with no problematic upgrades and just a generally well balanced list. It isn't anything special but it should be perfect for a beginner to learn with!

    On the Witch Elves, you go with a unit of 35 deployed ten-wide and five-deep with the Cauldron of Blood smack in the middle for a perfect formation that doesn't look messy. This is because a Cauldron of Blood model is "three wide and five deep" technically, meaning when you join it to a horde formation of Witch Elves they will be perfectly ranked up in a 10 wide 5 deep formation. It is also a death-star and will annihilate almost anything it touches. Have fun!
    Last edited by Learn2Eel; 10-03-2014 at 02:23 AM.
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  7. #7

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    Thank you everyone for all the great advice.

    I am really, really glad I've gotten so much wonderful advice.

    Now, here is yet another updated list - and I think it will be MUCH better then what I've posted previously =D


    So, let's try this one out...

    Supreme Sorceress [General]
    w/ Level 4, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Protection and a Dark Steed
    + 5 Doomfire Warlocks
    (The sorceress will join one unit of Warlocks)

    5 Doomfire Warlocks

    Death Hag, w/ Witchbrew & Cauldron of Blood
    + 35 Witch Elves w/ Musician, Standard Bearer (Razor Standard)
    [10 wide, 5 deep centered around the cauldron of blood]


    Master BSB w/ Repeater Crossbow, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone.
    + 30 Har Ganeth Executioners w/ Full Command & War Banner
    (Master will join the executioners on foot.)

    5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbow & Shield
    5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbow & Shield
    5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbow & Shield

    Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Reaper Bolt Thrower
    Reaper Bolt Thrower

    10 Cold One Knights w/ Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

    War Hydra w/ Spit Fire.

    That's 3K on the nose.

    As you see I have listened to a lot of advice. The Hydra comes in from a suggestion that I have a big war monster in there. I was unsure, and still am.

    Please, let me know if this is going well or what?

    Thank you all again, so very much
    - Hammerman

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