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  1. #1
    Veteran-Sergeant
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    Post nerf eldar pleeeeaaasseee!

    Played against eldar yesterday, and i just cant win from that army! 1850 points and al it took was 4 wave serpents and a wraightknight to destroy my army... wraithknight, ok its strong but can be dealt with, but waveserpents...OMG!...They are realy OP!!! Scatter laser/shuriken cannon/serpent shield, 7x str6 and d6+1 str 7 ignore cover and also with reroll to hit, cmon gw! I play space marines, and nothing works. Drop pods, he shoots me away, rhino rush, he ignores the smoke launchers and shoots me away, land raider, knight shoots it away, even tried a shooty army, im outgunned...even terminators die like guardsman. Somebody has some advice/tactics?

  2. #2
    Chapter-Master
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    Castle up with an AV15 building. Preferably with a Macro cannon thingy on top.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  3. #3

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    I've had a ton of luck with an AV14 Iron Hands spam list against Eldar. Knock out the Knight T1 with shooting and then they can't really touch you. To be fair I'm running with some Forge World stuff, but nobody around here mind it. My Achilles have been a bloody godsend, especially with the 7th changes to vehicle damage. What's that, you need an 8 to blow me up?

  4. #4
    Chapter-Master
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    Land raiders.

    Wave serpents can't scratch their paint (unless he has one with bright lances, but so far I think I'm the only eldar player on earth who actually fields them like this) and they can protect your dudes until they get up close to bash the tanks and pointy ears with giant f'in hammers.

    Also grav centurions can make quick work of them. If he's going to play 4 wave serpents then you should feel no qualms about playing Tigirius with grav cents. Get the power that ignores cover saves, and then fire some twin linked grav cannons at them. They wont be able to get their jink save and the serpent shield won't be able to help since 6's don't technically count as penetrating hits... Its how mine drop like flies. Also consider combi melta/plas vets in a drop pod Go for the rear armor on it... the shield doesn't work against the back armor and you can usually get at least one debilitating shot in. If he chooses to jink you've done just as well because its not going to be doing nearly as much pain next turn.

    Wave serpents do die, but you need to really focus on killing them. They've always been relatively tough to kill, its just that people think they're OP with the shield shot which should really only be like Str 4 pinning ignores cover instead of Str 7. If you thought that serpents are bad, you obviously didn't play back when Falcons were literally unkillable. They had a rule where as long as they moved fast (and that was more than 6") all hits counted as glances against them. Then holofields used to be "roll 2d6 and take the lowest for damage result". Back in the day, there were no hullpoints - your tank could take 100+ glances in a game and could never die. The damage table for glances was just a -2 modifier, so in order to actually HARM the tank you had to roll a 5+ which would have resulted in a weapon destroyed. But when you roll two dice, getting 2 different 5+ results was nigh impossible and so the falcons would just zoom around the table the entire game in a perpetual state of being unable to fire, but still dropping off squads of harlequins and fire dragons who literally murdered anything they came in contact with.

    So yeah, it could be worse... you could have the flying Falconry circus again. The simple way to fix this isn't to nerf the wave serpent, but to only unlock the wave serpent as a dedicated transport option for squads of 10 or more models. Until then you can only get the falcon (which would need a transport capacity increase of some sort to make this strategy viable)
    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. --Voltaire

  5. #5
    Chapter-Master
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    Of course, with only a 24" range and 6" movement, the Serpents will just sit back and force saves, and the WK will inflict ID on those Centurions with no invulnerable saves. You can roll for Invisibility, because everyone loves Invisible deathstars, but you're still kinda slow.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  6. #6
    Brother-Sergeant
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    Jan 2014
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    Utah
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    Agree that the Serpent Shield shouldn't be S7, 4 or 5 would be fair. More they are way too cheap to field even considering the unit inside. As to the topic, not really sure, Serpents are tough but not that crazy in a reasonable game, I think the lists with 6+ where they are only fielding minimums to put more serpents on the board are pretty gimmicky.

    I don't usually have too much trouble against 2-4 of them, LR's are good but they aren't sure to kill 2 serpents in a game so they aren't a great Serpent killer for their cost, they'll protect units though. I think Serpents are tough but if they aren't spammed they are managable. Serpents are more devastating to low model count armies and vehicles. I'm not overly familiar with the vanilla marine book so I apologize for not being specific. But you need to come at them more then one side, gun lining against serpents is an uphill battle, drop pods and deep strike are your friend, even a Tac squad's bolters coming out of a drop pod will take off 1-2 hullpoints on rear armor. I'm not sure I like the idea of looking for an expensive paper, rock, scissor answer. Even if you find the Paper to their Rock, they probably have access to some scissors. Lately I've been liking fielding cheaper units in larger numbers, especially in maelstrom.

    In my IG I tend to favor guardsmen spam, I have a lot of grenades, plasma, missiles, autocannons, chimera's. I can sling a lot of S6-8 with them, orders improve it a lot. They are tough but I can usually focus them down.

    Not saying I don't think Serpents are over powered, just mean looking for 1 thing that will take em down might not be the best way to go. In my experience Serpents tend to be pretty vulnerable to high volume of fire from a lot of different weapons. Shooting pricier anti tank guns at them just gets depressing when they convert most of it to glances. Assault is also a pretty solid way to take them down if you can reliably get to them. High unit count armies will be better at catching them though since they'll cover more ground giving Serpents less space to kite. Really any way you approach it Serpents are just really good for their points cost and availability.

  7. #7

    Default

    As an Eldar player, here´s what works :

    Blood Angels : Vanguard Veterans with Meltabombs, Sternguard with combi-meltas in a pod with that dude who steals initiative with 4+(?), Coteaz, and ally with some Assassin, the one with S4 AP2 Flamer is nasty and Vindicare Ignores cover and WILL penetrate...

    So, have i played the game for you enough?

    cos all of the above are annoying as HELL, and i hate the Necrons Tesla BTW...we all have crosses to ...and so worth...just THROW DICE!
    "WHAT KIND OF A PEACE
    DO I HAVE WITH A DESTROYER"

  8. #8
    First-Captain
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    Ask your opponent not to use 4 wave serpents as you're not enjoying playing against it

  9. #9
    Librarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Path Walker View Post
    Ask your opponent not to use 4 wave serpents as you're not enjoying playing against it


    This does not work when you go to a tournament... and who is to say the guy he is playing against is a bad guy? i've had games where i've crushed and been crushed and both my attitude and my opponent has made a huge difference. You cannot blame your opponent for playing a strong list. Eldar are strong it's been that way since their book came out and it will continue to be that way. they are just on a different power level then the other armies. If you do not plan for them then there isn't anything that can be said or done to help you. If your that guy who brings one anti tank gun and expects its to take out a tank a turn for all 6 turns then shame on you. you need to have multiple ways to take out tanks in a list for it to be effective. this had and will never change.
    unfiltered since 85. Don't like me tell some one who cares

  10. #10
    Chaplain
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    Jan 2011
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    Manchester
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    Ang56 is piss funny.
    He derides the spamming of Wave Serpents, and then goes In to advocate the spamming of Imperial Guard.

    Brilliant!

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