nerf eldar pleeeeaaasseee!

[Dave Mcturk]

I had another game against them the other week and its Legion of the Damned all the way

I run a Bike army and squads of legionaries dropping behind them forces them into areas they don't want to be in 5 man units of MM Melta Combi Melta are 155 each buff 1 squad up a bit and take the FNP relic to make them super sticky.

I tend to outflank or scout if I'm 1st turn, if you don't have the speed to take them on and quickly they'll run rings around you the big hit isn't just from the serpents its the fact that they gave them all rending I can't believe the designer who did that didn't realize how powerful it is

probably the same designer that didnt give them ST4 power swords, or grenades on close combat units, or FNP / IV saves on wraithguard/wraithlord [wraithknights can get it], or morale 10 on exarches, or A13 on the front of a falcon, or holofields or force shield on flyers or force shields on skimmers [walkers have them built in ].

neatly forcing eldar into being a 'rapid deployment' shooty army of one sort or another, or a camping army with lots of t3 troops or wraith units, im not complaining, the variety of builds is great fun to experiment with; and the cheese that is an army built around a full seer council and three wraithknights is very competitive; but the number of units that struggle even in a fluffy game is still annoying [Vypers / Banshees / Rangers / Quins / basic Wraithguard / Wraithlords / Crimson Paper Aeroplanes].

By far the easiest way to 'get' an eldar army is to nail it in close combat with something decent, the player who 'stays in the flying boxes' just needs to be blocked off objectives [tank shock has a maximum range of 12" in 7th]. The only basic eldar unit that can survive a 'rough' close combat is a buffed seer council {foot or jet}, almost everything else is T3 and dies horribly or has too few attacks to avoid being 'stuck' for the entire game.

The 'mini-rend' rule gives many eldar units some very effective shooting against small units [such as triple oblitz or 5 man termies]
but is reliant on 'luck plus' to tackle large units [like say fearless orc blobs, 15 man csm with FNP, necron wraith wall] - and most 'mini-rend' eldar weapons have a pretty short range - just soak up overwatch with some crud and get stuck in.

everyone goes on about eldar being higher/highest initiative - but at ST 3 they really struggle to do damage to T4 or T5.

with scorpions - which are ST4 in combat - just pull back and shoot - at unit size 10 and morale 9 they should run in three turns.

just remember if serpents use their op shield weapon [NB: our house rules: we have banned it] they cannot use their shield so bring one down per turn. you dont need pens. just glance them to death.

[John Bower]

Nope, I still think it's the WS that is the pig of the Eldar army, the rending guns and run/shoot or shoot/run I can hack. Also the proliferation of multilasers putting out more shots than any army can take safely is a pain. And if you think otherwise try facing my mate's Eldar army with 3 warwalkers all tooled with double ML's plus ML's on his 2 WS's and anything else he can put them on.

[Dave Mcturk]

Nope, I still think it's the WS that is the pig of the Eldar army, the rending guns and run/shoot or shoot/run I can hack. Also the proliferation of multilasers putting out more shots than any army can take safely is a pain. And if you think otherwise try facing my mate's Eldar army with 3 warwalkers all tooled with double ML's plus ML's on his 2 WS's and anything else he can put them on.

only 3 walkers ? lol.

yes we have lots of good units - but even serpentz chew up army point.

my personal favourite is still warp spiders. 21 ST 6 attacks with bounce in bounce out; and the bonus against vehicles is just too good.

[John Bower]

only 3 walkers ? lol.

yes we have lots of good units - but even serpentz chew up army point.

my personal favourite is still warp spiders. 21 ST 6 attacks with bounce in bounce out; and the bonus against vehicles is just too good.

But I've known his Warp Spiders have a really bad day - like when they misshaped and I put them in dangerous terrain on the far side of the board from my stuff. They had to walk across the board and even jumping took them so long they played no part in the game.

[Dave Mcturk]

But I've known his Warp Spiders have a really bad day - like when they misshaped and I put them in dangerous terrain on the far side of the board from my stuff. They had to walk across the board and even jumping took them so long they played no part in the game.

the tomb of doom. back in 5th . maxed out squad of spiders. 12" deviation right into the the middle of an 'impassable" 'tomb'. oh my.

but in 7th the chances of them mis-happing badly are far less. if using spiderz i always take an autarch to get them on as early as possible. if playing short edges i feel you have to start them on table - and as far up as possible [without getting them wiped out]. but for other deployments the long edge should be enough - 8 to 18" warp jump on. battle focus forward another >6". then shoot 12" and bounce. unless your opponent is still hiding in his own deployment zone they should have a target !

we've house ruled them up to 21pts -

i think the trick with serpentz [as an opponent] is just to keep them having to make a 'reactive' jink in 7th - we've banned the shield attack - but even with it if they are jinking it can only be snap shooting ?

[ShadowcatX]

It amuses me, Eldar SMU is a Tier 2 army list, yet rather than improving their own army lists and improving their own tactics people want to cry about it on the forums and house rule nerfs on the eldar players. Hopefully some day you'll get to play against an adamantine lance backed up by fearless blob squads, or a centurian star perhaps.

[40kGamer]

It amuses me, Eldar SMU is a Tier 2 army list, yet rather than improving their own army lists and improving their own tactics people want to cry about it on the forums and house rule nerfs on the eldar players. Hopefully some day you'll get to play against an adamantine lance backed up by fearless blob squads, or a centurian star perhaps.

I've actually watched semi-competent Eldar players dismantle the Lance. They are one of the few armies that can deal with it. The Lance is a god awful opponent to face any day... and I don't fancy the Serpent spam MSU Eldar army build as the top build for Eldar. There are several more balanced builds that are far better.

[Filthspew]

Unless you want to get hold of tons of models, buying or borrowing, I see only one option.
Playing the mission.
Methodically and without any remorse or shame.
Doesnt matter what you kill or what he kills, as long as you win the mission.

The other option is, models.

I would think power armor spam does a good job.
90 marines (tacticals and devastators) in 18 combat squads (18 targets) that all have to die as no fear will make them linger (stay away from the table edge).
And those Serpent shots will have to chew 3+ armor, having no AP that will reduce damage significantly.
And then, look towards flyer (spam).
Eldar are not known for massed sky fire options.

[Dave Mcturk]

Unless you want to get hold of tons of models, buying or borrowing, I see only one option.
Playing the mission.
Methodically and without any remorse or shame.
Doesnt matter what you kill or what he kills, as long as you win the mission.

The other option is, models.

I would think power armor spam does a good job.
90 marines (tacticals and devastators) in 18 combat squads (18 targets) that all have to die as no fear will make them linger (stay away from the table edge).
And those Serpent shots will have to chew 3+ armor, having no AP that will reduce damage significantly.
And then, look towards flyer (spam).
Eldar are not known for massed sky fire options.

mmm. not that i do it but - riptide ally / ies with anti air is insta death to one flyer per turn.

but i do regularly run reapers with st8 and tooled up exarch - dont have intercept ? - but still pop a flyer per turn with ignores jink
[and skimmers / bikes dont like them either - they can also pop a landraider if they are v. lucky]

or any eldar commander on a quad gun ?

i agree that even with overwatch / battle focus / bladestorm etc. what eldar still hate is 'up and at them' especially T5 or higher - even T4 causes problems once you get stuck in.

a PP proposed landraiders - but i think most eldar armies have at least one can opener - i normally run at least 3 - sometimes four.
[6 + dragons / 6 + spearlocks / 6+ hawks / 6+ shiny spears] any ONE of those units should pop a landraider [yes they may die in return but the metal box is gone]

the thread is about nerfing eldar - but its really only two or three things that make them superlative - the wave shield, [house rule it to ONE firing use only] bladestorm - [house rule it to AP3 for all varieties of Shurikats - Shurikannon stay AP2] and maybe 'battle-focus' - though very few units get a major benefit from it [spiderz / dragonz and warlockz probably the most] - we are contemplating making it D3 + 1" so that the 'fleet' re-roll doesnt turn it into a reasonable chance of >6".

then the codex itself is at fault - walkers are cheaper, fire further and gain better protection than vypers - [they even have battle focus !]

wraithknights are just SO MUCH BETTER than the now feeble wraithlord

and compared to the previous codex guardian troop types are awesome ! [still very vulnerable to odd things though]

i would gladly sacrifice bladestorm and battle focus [both 'nice' ideas that 'play' on eldars naturally high initiative values] -
for higher Leadership for commanders - [exarch types should be 10's ?] and automatic ST4 AP3 power sword options [a general 15 pts + for a ST 3 power sword/weapon is pretty putrid].

[DarkLink]

You kidding? Bladestorm and battle focus are far, far, far, far, far, far, far more useful than ld 10 on a couple of units. Exarch upgrades are mostly useless anyways, far too expemnsive for what you get.