Heres a good conundrum, Charging, LoS! and Coherency

[Blood Shadow]

If the charge role isn't high enough to get models into coherency and at least one model into base to base it's an unsuccessful charge and you don't move the unit.

[daboarder]

Got a rules quote for that?

[JMichael]

Here is what I see in the rulebook regarding Coherency during a charge.
p46.
Move Initial Charger (closest to enemy unit).
Move other models, they must abide by the following conditions:
End its move in Coherency
Attempt to end in Base Contact with enemy
If it cannot reach any enemy models, then must try to be w/in 2" of an already engaged model. If it can't them it must stay in coherency.

p46. Failed Charge
One sentence only stating that if the initial charger cannot make it into Base contact the charge fails.

p19. Unit Coherency
Simply states that if models are out of coherency they must restore coherency in the next Movement Phase or as soon as they have the opportunity (in the OP example, you would have two 3" Pile In moves to do this in that turn)

This is interesting, because in the OPs example, he cannot meet the coherency conditions, but since the Initial Charger can make it, he does not meet the 'Failed Charge' condition.

But, I still feel the charge is successful. Initial Charger can make it.
Rest of unit still makes the charge move, and while initially out of Coherency they can easily recover coherency with the two Pile In moves (Init step and End of Combat).

[John Bower]

Here is what I see in the rulebook regarding Coherency during a charge.
p46.
Move Initial Charger (closest to enemy unit).
Move other models, they must abide by the following conditions:
End its move in Coherency
Attempt to end in Base Contact with enemy
If it cannot reach any enemy models, then must try to be w/in 2" of an already engaged model. If it can't them it must stay in coherency.

p46. Failed Charge
One sentence only stating that if the initial charger cannot make it into Base contact the charge fails.

p19. Unit Coherency
Simply states that if models are out of coherency they must restore coherency in the next Movement Phase or as soon as they have the opportunity (in the OP example, you would have two 3" Pile In moves to do this in that turn)

This is interesting, because in the OPs example, he cannot meet the coherency conditions, but since the Initial Charger can make it, he does not meet the 'Failed Charge' condition.

But, I still feel the charge is successful. Initial Charger can make it.
Rest of unit still makes the charge move, and while initially out of Coherency they can easily recover coherency with the two Pile In moves (Init step and End of Combat).

I'm inclined to agree; since the IC can make it to B2B contact, the rest follow the normal rules for charging; so the charge didn't fail although they end up 'out of coherency' there are no rules to cover this situation. So the charge succeeds, you move into contact when able and back into coherency as per all other rules regarding this. Clear as muddy water

[SnakeChisler]

You have 3 ways of getting back into coherency

1/ charge range
2/ Pile in moves
3/ End of combat pile in moves

Coherency is only an issue at the start/end of the movement phase, RAW is never 100% so just take the 1st part and run with it
Move Initial Charger (closest to enemy unit)
And move on from there otherwise if you try and over think it you'll just end up with a load of scenarios that won't fit and get in a mess especially if you get kill back from look out in assault as well leaving whats left out of coherency again given its 6" Look out Sir radius.
So the Next time to look at coherency would be in your next movement phase.

[daboarder]

You have 3 ways of getting back into coherency

1/ charge range
2/ Pile in moves
3/ End of combat pile in moves

Coherency is only an issue at the start/end of the movement phase, RAW is never 100% so just take the 1st part and run with it
Move Initial Charger (closest to enemy unit)
And move on from there otherwise if you try and over think it you'll just end up with a load of scenarios that won't fit and get in a mess especially if you get kill back from look out in assault as well leaving whats left out of coherency again given its 6" Look out Sir radius.
So the Next time to look at coherency would be in your next movement phase.

snake, the question is what if your roll is high enough to get into B2B but NOT high enough to get into coherency as dictated that you MUST MAINTAIN by the assault rules. Claiming the coherency is only relevant to the movement is not only incorrect its also not actually helpful

[Charon]

snake, the question is what if your roll is high enough to get into B2B but NOT high enough to get into coherency as dictated that you MUST MAINTAIN by the assault rules. Claiming the coherency is only relevant to the movement is not only incorrect its also not actually helpful

JMIchael provided a lot of input here.

[daboarder]

I know, and I like his solution, but I would like to see others thoughts on this is all.


aedit; i'd also like to know how various groups would play such a rule, in order to get a feel for the community response

[SnakeChisler]

snake, the question is what if your roll is high enough to get into B2B but NOT high enough to get into coherency as dictated that you MUST MAINTAIN by the assault rules. Claiming the coherency is only relevant to the movement is not only incorrect its also not actually helpful

I didn't say it wasn't relevant my point is charge stands because that's what it says and all you need to consider is getting your butt back into coherency asap and try make base to base for the assault.

If you can't you just keep trying till you can

[John Bower]

snake, the question is what if your roll is high enough to get into B2B but NOT high enough to get into coherency as dictated that you MUST MAINTAIN by the assault rules. Claiming the coherency is only relevant to the movement is not only incorrect its also not actually helpful

The fact is that the whole situation has put you 'out of coherency', the only rule to do with that is that you must get back into coherency asap. There's no rule anywhere that says you 'can't' charge due to already being out of it. Only that you should be in it once all the charge moves are complete. But ... You can't; in this situation you were already out of Coherency due to the overwatch; that's not your problem, you just carry on as you are still in range for the charge. Had the roll been let's say 4 inches the question wouldn't have arisen, it only arose because the CR was 3"; and the models charging were for arguments sake 2.5" apart so that once into B2B they were out of coherency. Life happens; poor dice rolls happen but at the end of the day, all that matters is the actual CR which is enough to get the unit into battle, then you get them back into coherency with the pile in moves like you would if they were already in combat.