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  1. #41

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    There's also the price argument.

    Trouble is, GW have a setup the small companies simply don't. That means they need to ensure a certain level of turnover to avoid going into the red, and a terminal decline.

    If GW delivered a price cut, of any size, the small companies could still sell at a lower price. That's a no win situation for GW. Yes, they could shut down all their stores, which some in the gaming community advocate - but that would threaten their overall market dominance, and leave them open to the vagaries of third party sellers.

    What vagaries? Well, contrary to some claims, indie stores go out of business because they're not terribly good at running a business rather than GW trying to squeeze them out. It takes a competent sales person to set up their own shop selling anything, let alone niche interest stuff like our precious plastic crack. Another one - third party seller success requires their endorsement of your product. I for instance don't really enjoy Warmahordes, so would find it harder to sell than GW stuff. Whether anyone agrees with my own preferences is immaterial there. But, GW stores remove much of that (sadly, incompetent sales people are almost impossible to eradicate!).

    So price overall is GW's achilles heel. They could make a cut, but it would require an equal percentage rise in sales - the deeper the cut, the less likely that is to actually happen. I dunno about anyone else, but I set a cash value budget each month, rather a unit based one, so GW would be unlikely to see the corresponding rise in sales volumes from me. No, I'm not the be all and end all, just using my own situation for illustrative purposes. And if the cut is small, say 5% - it won't make enough of a difference for most to really benefit.

    Even if they did do a 25% cut say, and managed to increase their sales to compensate - the small companies could do much the same, and in some cases wouldn't need to, and still be cheaper.

    So it's not something we're ever likely to see GW tackle effectively, because they just can't.
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  2. #42
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    GW's philosophy on local retail stores changes from time to time. Mostly, they ignore them, but sometimes call them names and try to hurt them (especially the ones that have an online presence).

    But most LGS do go out of business because there aren't good business people running it. But about 50% of all new businesses fail in the first 5 years, so don't start thinking that they're so much worse than average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    Kromlech etc could be existing on borrowed time, depending on how the CH case turns out in the end.
    I disagree. They're in the UK- and even if GW were inclined to tempt the UK court system, the court precedents set in Chicago mean nothing to them.

    They have often gone after small businesses in the US, and they very rarely bring any kind of suit or even a C&D against businesses outside of the US (I can't think of a single example).

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  3. #43

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    Can also be a 'one at a time' approach. Deal with one case before starting another. Especially if GW end up taking CH to the cleaners - that adds considerably more clout to the 'just C&D already' argument.

    As I said - haven't does not equate to won't
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  4. #44
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    I'm firmly on the side-line with all this stuff.

    There is a sense of entitlement that is unhealthy on one end, that people feel GW "OWes" them and also I find most of these 3rd party companies mostly boring and just takes away focus from IMO more deserving companies that bother to develop their own settings and games.

    On the other hand hand, without 3rd party - I wouldnt have my Epic Necrons, which I wanted for almost a decade!- I know they werent "owed" to me, but I was still very happy someone brought them out. A lot of people still love Necromunda, BFG, Epic ect - How viable is the idea of creating a small-time operation do these sort of things "officially"? Maybe even buying out or giving permission to an existing one?
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asymmetrical Xeno View Post
    On the other hand hand, without 3rd party - I wouldnt have my Epic Necrons, which I wanted for almost a decade!
    Can you please direct me to that 3rd party?
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  6. #46

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    I look at these things from another perspective, too: Say someone's making something that covers gaps in GW's line, or that people might want to use for GW games. Instead of trying to fight a lengthy and expensive legal battle that hurts them in terms of PR, maybe it'd be worth it with some of them - depending on the quality of the models in question, of course - to instead set up a license with them, like GW did with Epicast and Armorcast back in the '90s. If you lose the court battle, then you're out a bunch of money and they continue to make money, and you've lost (more) goodwill with your customer base. But if you could set up some licensing agreements, you could expand your product line, bring in additional profits at less risk, and earn more goodwill. The fine line would be making sure that it's something that complements GW models, not replaces them, so you aren't competing for the same sales against a company. But if someone makes, say, vehicle additions or shoulder pads or new weapons or whatever, you could let them say "officially licensed for use with 40K" and take a cut of the money. It would also help them control what's being put out there more.

  7. #47

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    So let's go over this tremndous victory for GW (lol)

    Currently GW has CHS assets frozen. That does not mean there is 25 grand in the bank but let's assume for one moment there is. Let us also assume the poor company that GW is receives justice and Chapterhouse has to pay ten times the damages (250k) while stupidly leaving that much money in the accounts so they can be frozen. How much will GWs lawyers have costed? I suggest this figure to be a bit higher than what GW actually gets in damages. Now while this take on reality takes a lot of imagination I cannot even muster after several bottles of hard liquor let's go to the good part of it. Let us speculate:

    Part 1
    Let's assume CHS is not daft and emptied their accounts immediately when dragged to court hiding the cash in neigbours garage. - Not much to seize then and without proper cause and a search warrant (which you won't get) the cash is safe for Part 2. Of course CHS will declare bancrupt and GW gets exactly nothing except a nice bill from their lawyers.

    Part 2
    Moulds, somehow, will make it to another hiding place. A new company is formed with a new management and another frontface (Here comes the cash from neighbours garage handy). The new company shows GW the middle finger and produces the same products as CHS did. GW has to sue again and let us assume they get justice done sooner than the 5 years it took to bring CHS down. But we simply go to Part 3

    Part 3
    Yet another company with another face... (Rinse, repeat)


    Since GW DOES have to pay their lawyers I would assume this is a massive moneyhole. Not to mention the loss of goodwill Erik Setzer mentioned. By how much did the sales decrease last year? One would assume GW has other problems to worry about because the sales are less than satisfying since 2008 (the year of the massive price adjustment). But apparently they are quite happy with loosing sales left and right. Or why else would they rebrand the stores? Please, come into reality people. YOU DO NOT CHANGE A BRAND UNLESS THE OLD BRAND IS FUBARed

    Lesson: Besides CHS acting totally stupid, GW would have saved a lot of money if they had simply written a letter to CHS (which they claimed they had but could not produce for the judge!!!). In the end most kits of CHS were rubbish and needed a GW kit to be used. So why would I as a company worry if someone does something that I do not want to waste my money on and needs one of my products to function? Heck I would even offer to help increase their quality and IF there was a market I would reserve the right to obtain all rights to that add-on.

    Going in with blazing guns seldom works - there is ALWAYS someone faster than you. And in this case CHS (and any company that follows) has the advantage of declaring bancrupt while GW has to sue each company individually. You cannot win this kind of fight in a court of law. You have to win it with the customer and that's the point.

    IF GW HAD a better image even inside their customer base there would be no issue of recasters and companies like CHS trying to steal a bit of the cake. REAL fans with TRUE affection to the company will always buy original. They will look down on anyone doing something even remotely questionable. But reality is GW sales are decreasing and recasters etc thrive. So please enlighten me what GW is actually going to win? Experience on how to loose more sales? Experience how to appear as the bad guy while they are completely within their rights?

    Again: Please take a step into reality.
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  8. #48

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    GW is going to win strengthened and indeed defined IP rights.

    That's priceless right there. Means should they wish to go after any other mickey takers, they're coming from a far stronger position, and said companies would be less likely to get any pro-bono help, leaving them screwed royally, and all because they couldn't be arsed to come up with their own IP.

    Not sure why people seem to struggle with that?

    And is there really that much bad sentiment? Echo chamber of the internet seems to think so, but my gaming circle are laughing at CH for being dim enough to think they'd actually get away with this.

    As for hiding cash? Slightly paranoid much? Accounts exist. If they plead poverty, accounts would be examined. If they've cooked the books, it would be apparent, so on top of this sort of trouble, they might also be faced with tax evasion and fraud charges.

    But by all means, continue to labour under the misapprehension that GW had any choice in this matter.
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  9. #49

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    Actually, it is quite possible CH will win again and get even more things tossed their way. The freezing of assets isn't indicative of the decision. It is standard when assets are involved. In civil cases (from divorce to white collar crime), assets are often attacked as a tactical move by one party to try and cripple the other one to force them into some kind of barter. It doesn't mean that party's case is any stronger, only that they have deeper pockets and hope to starve the other person out. I think this was rather unwise on their part but it makes great fun to watch.

  10. #50

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    I don't think they will.

    Granted I'm far from a legal eagle, but didn't CH get caught claiming a witness was an expert, when he was just a local college professor or something? That's a pretty dodgy claim, particularly as it would have significant influence on the outcome....

    As for deeper pockets - surely that wouldn't work terribly well against Pro Bono stuff, as you're not having to pay your representation?
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