Chapterhouse VS GW - Assets Frozen Announcement

[40kGamer]

It's not in CH's interest to play hooky on that one.

By not surrendering all the moulds the court ordered, they arm GW with a mighty big hitting stick, and one no amount of pro-bono would get them out of. If knock off CH stuff turns up (but why would it? Their sculpts aren't exactly quality), there seems only one likely source of said moulding.....

Plausible deniability my friend. They could proclaim their innocence by asserting that the other party made a copy of their originals and then offered them to the public. Think of the irony of CH claiming to be a victim of piracy! Plus if these copies turned up from China or Russia so much the better. I really don't think this will happen though. As you pointed out their product isn't of high enough quality nor is there enough market demand to make skirting the court order even remotely worth it.

[Caitsidhe]

Now that I'm back I can comment again on the nature of "sealed" settlements. I provided a page wherein pretty reliable information can be found and even an article. On average one in two hundred Federal cases involving civil suits gets sealed. Lots of people on here have been trying to play off the sealed settlement terms as "standard practice." I'm not certain either country (United States or Great Britain) considers half a percent of cases to be standard practice. Wouldn't the MAJORITY of cases be sealed for that to be the case?

This brings us back to my original contention, that the terms are sealed because one (or both) of the parties involved want them sealed. Ok, why would that be so? If Games Workshop soundly defeated and extracted penalizing terms from Chapterhouse, why wouldn't they want that known? That was the point of the case. It would allow them to show their stockholders and investors that all that money they spent on the case was not wasted. More to the point, a demonstration of punishment would serve as an effective tool to dissuade future Chapterhouse wannabes. In short, Games Workshop has every reason to want those settlement terms public, unless of course they aren't favorable to them. If they didn't really penalize Chapterhouse, they have every reason to want them sealed as it would be a further embarrassment. This brings us back, of course, to my supporting my arguments and opinions logically. I'm still waiting for any logical reason that Games Workshop would want these terms sealed, something I may have missed or not considered?

[Mr Mystery]

There's lots of possible reasons.

Perhaps it is GW.

Perhaps it's CH.

Perhaps it's the preferred method for one or both of the Counsels.

Perhaps CH got caught by their counsel having told porky pies, and they advised time to settle, and we'll get it sealed.

Perhaps you're spot on.

Perhaps the Pro-Bono was withdrawn, and CH's counsel felt public knowledge might damage their brand reputation?

Perhaps GW wanted it sealed so nobody really knows what was given up, intending that it would lead to others producing stuff on what they consider their IP to tread carefully?

What we do know, is that the initial ruling stands - so nothing got better or worse for either party based off that.

Regardless of who asked for sealing, or why - it does appear from what we know GW were in the stronger bargaining position thanks to the asset freeze. So based on what we actually know (not much), I just don't see what clout CH's counsel would be able to bring to bare.

[sebigboss79]

The "we don't know" is exactly the point. To say your opinion cannot be right because it is opionion and we don't know you cannot credibly turn around and give the opposing view as fact.

I tend to look at the argument "cui bono" - who profits and that leads me to a conclusion. Concerning the argument that "pro bono" was withdrawn I must say I seem to recall the counsel said "pro bono until we have won" sort of thing. Essentially they said they would go down with the client but of course opinions can change, it is just I doubt it. I find it much more believable that GW finally saw they ain't gonna "win".

As to the matter of moulds turning up elsewhere the "plausible deniability" is spot on. Moreover if GW suspects CHS of "cheating" they have to proove it beyond doubt. Do I as a German (living in UK) really have to tell YOU how the American legal system works? Innocent until prooven guilty. I know the internet has turned this to guilty until prooven innocent but that would actually work against GW here.

What it looks like to the neutral observer is that a large company crakcs down on a small one - without prior attempt to settle the matter outside a courtroom. Remember GW could not produce any C&D or other communication that shows they tried amicably?

Summarising all that I doubt CHS had anything to gain from a settlement outside the courtroom. As for the "freeze of assets" problem -and I am merely speculating from how I operate my business- CHS did not care that much. The money will not go away, it is just that you cannot make more money and customers suffer. But most customers would not be reasonable nut blame GW for this. Also remember there have been no terms as yet how the damages are to be paid. CHS could have asked to pay in installments and establish a payment plan. Without that CHS can turn around and blame GW for any bills they cannot pay and most people will buy it. The blame always can be shifted.

So if that asset freeze was overruled GW would be liable for damages, something I can comfortably wait out and if things go downhill there is always declaring bancruptcy with only exempt assets. Maybe it is exactly what GW wanted to avoid? As of now at least they know who has said moulds and they can calculate how many of those kist can be produced in time x. GW can outproduce CHS if they want to. They can undercut them in price and can deliver better quality. From that point of view the lawsuit actually was a waste of time and mnoney.

Again refer to my post what interest would CHS have in sealed records. They have been branded as the victim and I just cannot see this being turned around. Your idea of "porky pies" has merit but again I find it hard to assume this would come out at the end of a lawsuit and lead to a 180° . If I remember right a counsel can then drop the case - which did not happen. Moreover in such a case it would be damage control if CHS had the documents not sealed and cooked a story to stay in the victim seat. Again, most people would buy it because it is comfortable to blame the big guy rather than the small one. Reality does not matter much on the internet, does it?

GW made the mistake to position them as the bad guy and the inherent problem is also the reason why their sales have dropped like they did. GW has massively understimated corporate image and its impact on more tangibles. Ask yourself whether you buy from a company you like or from one you consider a tyrant? Would you rather side with the tyrant or the "innocent white knight"?

[40kGamer]

Chapterhouse has reopened... what's the public verdict?

[url]http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/breaking-chapterhouse-studios-re-opens.html[/url]

[Caitsidhe]

Chapterhouse has reopened... what's the public verdict?

[url]http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/breaking-chapterhouse-studios-re-opens.html[/url]

It looks to me like very little changed on their site or their offerings. It looks to me like my guess as to the quiet, sealed settlement was an out for Games Workshop to try an salvage some face. Everything worked out fine.

[40kGamer]

Is that crickets? Ah well, looks like business as usual for Chapterhouse.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yeah, I can't see many changes on the website at all, a few items missing - but msot of it is still there, still labelled as compatible with 40k/GW trademarks, still got the heresy kits and upgrade kits ect

Looks like a victory for CH to me.

[Caitsidhe]

Yeah, I can't see many changes on the website at all, a few items missing - but msot of it is still there, still labelled as compatible with 40k/GW trademarks, still got the heresy kits and upgrade kits ect

Looks like a victory for CH to me.

Oh... most definitely. In short, Games Workshop did NOT want to go back to Court. Cooler heads prevailed and they did the power play to try and withdraw with dignity. As I said before, they used the carrot and the stick. They used the move of costing CH money by freezing assets, a tactic that would NOT have held but was very inconvenient for the "little guy" and then met with them and offered a settlement (sealed of course). Out of that deal, GW got a minimal save of face and the parties walked away before any more money bled out in court. For their part CH is going to be left alone and I would bet my bottom dollar on the fact that they were absolved of the original 20K settlement.

*And for those who will rail and gnash their teeth at my suggestion that CH got let off their minor, original fine... let me point out that CH was going back to Court still sporting FREE legal representation. Games Workshop would have dropped 20K on simple research and filings alone. By the time it finished in Court the second time around, Games Workshop would be another 100-500K down. More importantly, there was nothing for Games Workshop to win in Court. All they could do is lose more. Hence, it is good fiscal sense to get the hell away from the issue now. They froze the assets to try and give themselves leverage to make CH want to do it too, i.e. so it would cost CH something to keep going to Court as well. Presto chango! We let you off the 20K and stop messing with your business if you let us out of this bloodsucking lawyer nightmare.

*The REAL winners, the legal firm representing Games Workshop! I'll bet GW gets a Christmas card thanking them for making the last three years so profitable.

[AirHorse]

Maybe its just me, but I don't get why anyone was expecting much change on their website when it came back up?

Didn't they change the labelling and products on there in response to this lawsuit ages ago? I thought they had made those changes long before it ever got to appeal and freezing of assets. In which case, why would anything be different, no matter what the settlement was?(Assuming CH decided to continue in the industry of course!).

But maybe its just me!