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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgrim View Post
    Although since that author is pretty well known and liked in several online (non-war) gaming communities, I think GW shot themselves in the foot choosing her as their 'look, we're doing something!' target.
    You know you've jumped the shark when Wil Wheaton rallies the troops against you.

    Seriously though, slapping Chapterhouse may stir things up but is a completely justified move... 'Spot' was such an epic PR screwup that whoever thought it was a good idea should have had their items boxed and been escorted from the building.
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  2. #32
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    - I don't think that the book was related. GW sends all kinds of Cease and Desist letters out all the time (or at least, they did before the CHS case went to trial). If anything, it adds evidence of Bullying (which may or may not be legal) but they never go after companies that can defend themselves. I remember they told Raging Heroes to stop making their Lamasu (right before GW brought back their inferior Lamasu). Of course, they could just stop making the one mini and get on with their lives. CHS didn't have that option.

    Of note, Reaper Miniatures actually makes a "Space Marine." He looks like Marcus Fenix from Gears of War, but they actually use the term in reference to a mini. But Reaper is large, and that makes GW lawyers afraid to act.

    -The biggest problem that Chapterhouse had in this case was that GW would not be satisfied until Chapterhouse Studios died. The C&D ordered them to cease existing as a company. Nick figured that his personal assets were exempt from his business assets- so the worst case scenario is that he loses his business if he fought it in court. If he caved, he had to give up his business, so he didn't see it as all that much of a difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by YorkNecromancer View Post
    ...Because we all know Kromlech makes Chaos Marine parts and Ork parts. We know. They don't need to call them their actual GW names. It's obvious. And if GW tried taking them to court, the ground is so much more uncertain...
    Yeah- and the court precedent that has been set is that those companies can openly state that their parts are compatible with GW kits. Which is the interesting thing to come out of this case.

    The real difference is that Chapterhouse is in the US, and Kromlech is in the UK. GW's C&D spam is against US companies. This is because the way that the US court system works, it is much harder for a small entity to defend themselves against a larger one. If Scibor, Victoria, Kromlech, Puppet's War, and probably even Mantic were sued, they could defend themselves with far less risk (if they win the majority of the case). In the US, you can win most (or even all) of your claims and still go bankrupt.


    But this whole case is because GW is throwing a fit, and lashed out at a small company that was doing them no harm (honestly, people could not use most CHS parts without buying GW bits). The groupthinkers at GW don't know why their market share is declining, and decided that it is due to these tiny companies making GW bits, rather than the much larger companies making different games that are constantly growing in popularity.
    Last edited by odinsgrandson; 10-21-2014 at 09:03 AM.

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  3. #33
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    Chapterhouse crossed the line when they offered full models labeled with GW's names and based on GW's concept art. If they had lingered in the established limbo of after market add ons they may have avoided the court drama. The biggest positive to come out of the trial is that the ruling establishes a precedent for what is and isn't acceptable... something new companies can use to guide their offerings.

    I agree that the US court system is just plain stupid. Typically there are no repercussions to filing frivolous lawsuits, and given that each side has to foot their own legal bill the defendant can easily go bankrupt even if they win.
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  4. #34

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    Yup. And IP is an odd thing for legal stuff - it's only as strong as you make it, from what I understand.

    If you attempt to enforce it at the drop of a hat, the less likely you are overall to see attempted infringements, whether intentional (CH) or completely coincidental (Spots).

    It's a capitalist grabfest at the end of the day. Had GW got the author of Spots to back down - dear lord the things that would do for them.

    Don't hate the player, hate the game. This is the legal world GW inhabit - they have to play that way or potentially lose everything.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    Don't hate the player, hate the game. This is the legal world GW inhabit - they have to play that way or potentially lose everything.
    Make & sell some Star Wars models on the open market and see how Disney takes it. I imagine Mickey and the gang going full Rambo on your ***.

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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenS View Post
    Erik, I agree with you on this. I just wish that rather than focus on legal battles like this, that GW focus more on making and selling more non-limited edition stuff. I mean if you don't buy the data cards for army X then your stuffed unless someone in your group has kindly bought you a box.
    The "limited edition" on some items pisses me off. Like the Lore of Undeath cards. You bring in a new lore that ANYONE can use, and then only have three sets at each of your stores? A friend and I got to the local GW store an hour early - no kidding, we sat outside for an hour - to make sure we got the cards. The third person in line was a kid who didn't even play WFB at the time, and now has an Ogre Kingdoms army and just one box of Spirit Hosts, with no hurry to get more stuff to summon. That left a guy who actually has Vampire Counts and might want to summon Undead with his other army to not have a set of cards, so the manager actually was nice enough to sell the guy his own set of cards (and the manager was starting an Undead army, too). So you already have one player without cards and one player has cards even though he doesn't use them, just because of the limited nature. W...T...F...

    And if you want to push Maelstrom of War (and hey, I enjoy them, even when the draw of the cards just screws me over bad), you should make sure to keep the cards in stock, so people can actually play the missions, because rolling on a chart and keeping track like that is a serious PITA.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by 40kGamer View Post
    Chapterhouse crossed the line when they offered full models labeled with GW's names and based on GW's concept art. If they had lingered in the established limbo of after market add ons they may have avoided the court drama. The biggest positive to come out of the trial is that the ruling establishes a precedent for what is and isn't acceptable... something new companies can use to guide their offerings.
    I saw one Tau-style model they made, was there more than that? I don't even know what anyone would use it for, so I can't imagine how they could have sold it, even.

    Meanwhile, I could replace my Ork Shoota Boyz, Slugga Boyz, characters, MegaNobz, Warbuggies, Big Gunz, and a few other things with entire models from Kromlech designed to fit into a GW Ork army and replace existing GW kits... and that's okay?

    The overzealous filter they turned back on at my job prevents me from crawling through the main BoLS site (but ironically leaves the forum unblocked), so I can't check on this, but I swear they were highlighting a company making complete Chaos Marines. And Victoria Miniatures makes enough variety that you could build an entire Imperial Guard army - at least the infantry - with their models, without buying GW stuff.

    So, really, what's the difference? That you just don't actually use GW terms, even while you make it blatantly obvious you're replacing their models? And don't make something that looks like their concept art, unless it's so bloody generic that they can't say anything?

  8. #38

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    Yep. Because Kromlech advertise them as Orcs, GW calls them Orks.

    Junk armour can't really be trademarked etc.

    Kromlech are walking the fine line beautifully. CH did not. CH set out to use GW IP to produce shonky knock offs, and took no steps to point out they weren't affiliated with GW in anyway.

    Your last line essentially nails it. At least for now. CH in their own gross stupidity painted a mahoosive target on themselves, and stood in the range, bellowing SHOOT ME. GW could not ignore that. IP in general shows they had to take action.

    Kromlech etc could be existing on borrowed time, depending on how the CH case turns out in the end. Not having taken action yet does not mean action will not be taken. Who knows? None of us are IP Lawyers, and even if some of us are, none of us, absolutely none of us, are IP Lawyers privy to the inner thoughts of GW. There's a lot of speculation going on, and even some conclusion jumping. But it's based off personal opinion, rather than solid fact. Even Weebl, who says he's an IP Lawyer presents GW in the worst possible light, without knowing exactly what's going on. He may be right, he may be wrong - but his thoughts are often taken as gospel by those who also wish only to see GW in the worst possible light.

    In short? Have not taken action does not, at this point, prove 'will not'. If I were a third party producer, I reckon I'd have something of a squeaky bum right now.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Setzer View Post
    I saw one Tau-style model they made, was there more than that? I don't even know what anyone would use it for, so I can't imagine how they could have sold it, even.
    I remember a Striking Scorpion Exarch and a full Farseer on Foot. One of the FLGS had them in stock for a bit and the packs used the GW names. I think everything else was a conversion kit although they had the Warlock and Farseer on Jetbike where they used the actual 40k names to reference their models. (You still had to get the jetbike from GW though.)

    The other companies may get by with it because of where they are or how they title things... or it may be that what they mimic is more difficult to target. Victoria minis try to be more generic sci-fi and reference back to historical uniforms (maybe trying to deflect IP claims?) they do have a distinct 40k feel and are generally better than the GW equivalents.
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  10. #40
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    What's a company like GW supposed to do? They built their IP (regardless of what themes they ripped off from other sources back in the day) and now other people want to cash in on their market. Ebay is littered with recasters, China and Russia may as well be the Wild West and then you even get stuff like this:

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    Extremely nice Epic scale knock off of the Forgeworld Gorgon but should someone be able to produce and sell these even in limited quantities? If I was running GW I would be plenty miffed! There's no doubt that IP defense is a difficult thing to balance and for all of GW's bluster it appears that they can scarcely stem the tide!
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