A Petition to Games Workshop

[Eldar_Atog]

Because they don't feel its in their best interests to encourage that sort of aberrant behavior.

If you want to run a competitive tournament, run one, change the rules as you see fit, thats allowed. They don't want a tournament scene because they don't think its good for their business. Thats their choice, its their game.

So what is the difference is grown men playing with plastic toys in a casual environment versus grown men playing with plastic toys in a competitive environment? How is one aberrant and the other not? If your definition is aberrant behavior is competitive 40K players, then you might be a little naive on the ways of the world. There are much odder and stranger things lurking out there.

I'm not into playing tournaments but there is nothing inherently wrong with competition. We are surrounded by it. Professional sports, the heavy focus on competitive games in the education system, the general race to "get ahead" in our careers.

Heck, GW still pushes competition when it's convenient for them. The Golden Demon painting competition would be a good example. And back in the day, it was GW that created the 40K and fantasy tournament scenes.

[Mr Mystery]

I think he meant aberrant as in 'not representative of the majority', rather than 'creepy little weirdos'.

Leastwise I hope he did?

[Path Walker]

I think he meant aberrant as in 'not representative of the majority', rather than 'creepy little weirdos'.

Leastwise I hope he did?

Yeah, as in, its not the way its supposed to be but it happens, they're gradually encouraging people away from it, they tried to make the competitive thing work with 3rd edition and it was a bit of a failure.

They've tried it the way the way this survey wants it and it just didn't work.

[Eldar_Atog]

Yeah, as in, its not the way its supposed to be but it happens, they're gradually encouraging people away from it, they tried to make the competitive thing work with 3rd edition and it was a bit of a failure.

They've tried it the way the way this survey wants it and it just didn't work.

It is possible for competitive gaming to work because Privateer Press seems to be making a good go of it. My opinion is that GW wanted competitive play but didn't want to invest any effort into it. You can't just slap together a balanced game system.

I like the idea of this petition but it will just be ignored. GW does not care about it's customers.

[Mr Mystery]

GW does not care about it's customers.

I'm always skeptical about such comments, and I don't mean to single you out in particular.

I see lots of comments online about how 'the community' want this, and 'the community' want that, when what people really mean is 'I'. Which don't get me wrong, 'I' is fine. But there just isn't that single, unified community voice clamouring for the same thing. For instance - all I mostly want are honking big models, and rules to use them with. That's my prime concern, and right now I am extremely well catered for by GW. I know I'm not alone in that, but I wouldn't say that view is necessarily a majority.

[Path Walker]

It is possible for competitive gaming to work because Privateer Press seems to be making a good go of it. My opinion is that GW wanted competitive play but didn't want to invest any effort into it. You can't just slap together a balanced game system.

I like the idea of this petition but it will just be ignored. GW does not care about it's customers.

The idea that GW doesn't care about its customers is nonsensical. Of course they do.

They don't care for their customers telling them how to run their business based on their own personal opinions.

Privateer Press is a different business, they're not in the business of making beautiful models, obviously, and their game is structured around the idea of competitive competition which GW do not want for their games.

Its not that they can't make it work, they just don't want to because they prefer to run as a model company that makes games.

[Wildeybeast]

Whether or not GW care about the customers is completely irrelevant. They aren't an old peoples home or counselling service or a school. People don't pay GW money to care about them, that isn't the service they provide.

People assume that because they care about the service/product GW provides the mirror is that GW should care about them. Actually the correct reciprocation would be GW caring about the product it makes, which I think most of the company does. If customers cared about the financial success of GW and the individual welfare of its employees, then they would have right to moan about GW not caring about them.

[Path Walker]

You've never had a cuddle with a black shirt in a hobby centre? Its a reasonable price, obviously you could get a cheaper hug but i think the quality is worth it.

[Eldar_Atog]

I'm always skeptical about such comments, and I don't mean to single you out in particular.

I see lots of comments online about how 'the community' want this, and 'the community' want that, when what people really mean is 'I'. Which don't get me wrong, 'I' is fine. But there just isn't that single, unified community voice clamouring for the same thing. For instance - all I mostly want are honking big models, and rules to use them with. That's my prime concern, and right now I am extremely well catered for by GW. I know I'm not alone in that, but I wouldn't say that view is necessarily a majority.

No offense taken. Let me give my reasoning for why my "does not care about it's customers" statement.

1) Look how they have walled themselves off. No facebook pages, no forums, no outreach programs. These things can sometimes be more trouble than they are worth but they are a great way to see what your customers are excited about and where their pain points are.

2) The avoidance of almost all conventions. I can count on one hand how many times I have seen official GW representation at a gaming/geek convention. At GenCon, Wizards, AEG, Privateer Press, and most of the other big companies have great booths to get you excited about stopping by. You might not get a lot of facetime with one of the writers/artists but you did not feel like they were hiding from you.

3) Gamesday. When I went to this in Memphis, TN about 2 years ago, it just felt like a huge store. The only thing that did not seem to be store based was the Golden Demon stuff. Truth be told, the Battle Bunker used to have more going on than Gamesday. Painting courses and the like...

When a company is trying to avoid interacting with even it's excited customers, then how can I think that they care about the customer base?

Our needs aren't all that different, Mystery. I want really cool models, interesting fluff, and well balanced rules. I do not want to show up for a game and know I am going to beat my opponent before we are even setting up terrain. Fair play is an extremely important point for me. I do not want to trounce an opponent just because they did not win the codex lottery.

Sorry about my typing. I tend to sometimes leave out words as I am typing.

[Mr Mystery]

Some counter points.

1) keyboard warriors. They reach out, and receive abuse. If it's a public forum type thing? That's not good for them. If the goon squad could just wind their necks in and look into constructive criticism, we might see a stronger dialogue.

2) FW do reach out. Warhammer Fest was fun, and apparently organised by FW primarily, and they attend various conventions. For GW, the cost may not work out. After all, you need to fly out big names to make it worth it. One could argue (and not saying it's necessarily a strong one!) that their own stores mean they can reach out in a more cost effective way, as anyone wandering in can be shown the whole gamut of the hobby (which to me is more customs service than others can offer themselves)

3) yeah GD went downhill - and I don't think it's just our increasing maturity. They keep a tight rein on leaks and previews, apparently/allegedly because they don't want to give third parties the time to produce knock off versions of new kits.

I think it's just one of those things. I know what good customer service means to me, but it's not a universally definable trait. Good example? I like staff to acknowledge me when I'm in store, and to engage me about what I'm up to. GW do this, so I'm happy. Others prefer to be left alone to browse in peace. And you know, that's all personal preference, and neither is more correct a method than the other. But GW have made their choice.

Sadly for some GW just isn't going to be the company they want.