Avengers: Age of Ultron

[Morgrim]

I agree with eldargal. Black Widow knows what she's done and doesn't shy away from it. She admits it and tries to fix things. The way she goes about redeeming herself isn't always the best, and she doesn't seem to actually believe she can do enough to wipe her slate clean, but she tries and that counts for quite a bit.

It's a straight that Iron Man sometimes shares with her. Unfortunately for him he has a monumental ego that frequently gets in the way and sends him sliding backwards. But wasn't there a moment in one of the What-If comics where Stark very briefly snatched up Mjolnir and successfully fended off an attack to defend Thor (much to everyone's astonishment, he was trying to use it to stop a skid) and then got egoistic and promptly had it nearly land on his foot?*

*It is entirely possible I am confusing this was a particularly well made fan comic, I've never regularly followed Marvel and have no idea where this was from

[Mr Mystery]

That's the problem with DC movies. They keep planning out all this "we're going to copy Marvel and have superheroes face off and have an overarching story and...", but that's not why Marvel has been successful. Marvel has been successful because they consistently put out good movies. Guardians of the Galaxy blew away expectations precisely because everyone seems to think the key to success was introducing heroes and then cramming them into a movie and so they didn't expect unknown heroes to do well.

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times YES.

The Marvel films are all highly watchable, and usually within the right area of family viewing, without being 'namby pamby nobody dies or actually gets hurt'. They're movies that the whole family can get something out of and enjoy. Much like the original Star Wars trilogy.

Most of all? The Marvel films are fun. Whether by accident or design is immaterial, but Marvel have absolutely nailed it. The fact that what, 10 films in, and their audience continues to grow? That's golden. That is truly golden. There is no sign they've had some early hits then figured 'if we film it, they will come' - something which dragged down Episode 1 of Star Wars, to the point it left enough of a bad taste in the moviegoing collective's mouth that it tainted the next two films (which are actually really rather good for the most part).

DC however have gone a bit 'Torchwood, Season 1'. They've claimed it's dark and gritty - but it just doesn't work that well, because barring Bats, their characters aren't especially dark and gritty by nature - that's one of their appeals as comic books. Why they would try to film something the character isn't is quite beyond me.

[YorkNecromancer]

I think she thinks she isn't worthy, because she thinks worthy = purity.

Oh, absolutely. Ironically, she's pretty much the most qualified apart from Thor to hold the hammer. I was reading about Beta Ray Bill last night, and came across this:

During a "Thor Spotlight" panel at the Baltimore Comic Con, August 28, 2010, 'Thor' writer Walter Simonson further stated:

One of the cool things about Thor was the enchantment around Mjolnir and the original inscription on it. So I thought, well that means someone else can pick up this hammer and get this power, if they're worthy! So since then, some other big characters, people's favorites, have picked up the hammer, Captain America, Superman, whoever. But at this point, no one had ever picked up the hammer. I liked the idea of Cap walking to the bathroom and seeing it, and grabbing and just tugging, not being able to. So this had to be someone new. This is the most powerful weapon of the Norse gods. This hammer is a killing weapon. It's used to kill Frost Giants and others. So, Superman couldn't pick it up, cause he's never going to kill anyone, and the hammer knows that. Captain America, he's too patriotic. He's too much a symbol of America to be chosen by this Norse artifact. So he couldn't get it. So I created Bill because he's noble, and he's designed to kill. He's got a great purpose as a warrior, and also the noble ability. That makes him "worthy" whatever that may be.

So one of the definitions of 'worthy' is:
1.) Noble of heart.
2.) A killer.

That's a really interesting idea - the fact that in his opinion Superman couldn't lift it because he'd never use it to kill with. I mean, yes, I know this happened:



but still. Of all of them, I think Black Widow is the most qualified. She's not got Stark's ego, she's not dedicated to a single country like Cap, she's not got Hulk's lack of focus, and she's significantly less of a jabroni than Hawkeye (who, and let's be fair here, is basically making up the numbers). I could get behind Widow armed with the might of a god.

In fact, I wonder if that's the narrative reason why she refuses to pick up the hammer? That the little clip isn't just a charming comedy scene but a Chekov's Gun, and that actually, she's the only other person who can raise the hammer? So when all the 'heavy hitters' are out, she picks up the hammer and whomps on Ultron with it?

That would be f***awesome.

[Mr Mystery]

That could be the reason for the tender 'fist bump' bit between her and Hulk......

[bfmusashi]

I read it that she knows she's not. She's the most bloodstained and previously murderous of all The Avengers after all. It's kind of her gimmick.

So yeah, would be awesome if she was found to be worthy. That would be a serious mark-out moment if written properly.

Thor's a big blonde murder machine, as is Cap. Black Widow may just not have the body count to slake it's blood lust. Or, the motive for grabbing the hammer matters, it's never been clear how it works.

[Mr Mystery]

Thor's a big blonde murder machine, as is Cap. Black Widow may just not have the body count to slake it's blood lust. Or, the motive for grabbing the hammer matters, it's never been clear how it works.

Well, Thor's hammer didn't have Odin's enchantment when he was a git - indeed it was his attempted invasion of wherever Ice Trolls lived that lead to the enchantment being put on it.

It is a weapon of war, and construction - Odin covers that in the first film

So, Black Widow could well be found worthy, as she is on a path of personal redemption and self sacrifice - both of which I would largely consider pretty noble.

[eldargal]

I think Black Widows kill count rivals Captain America, if not Thor perhaps.

[bfmusashi]

We don't know for sure though and she's in espionage, a field that tends to frown on kill counts but values efficiency of action. She is also, I think. the only character not shown making a mistake. Cap is a weapon of war that got dropped like a bomb and Thor, well he didn't get the hammer back until there was an immediate episode of violence.
Besides, it won't be fun if they show her lifting it before the plot can make it rad.

[eldargal]

New trailer:

[Darren Richardson]

ohh Can't wait it looks AMAZING!