CaptainMarvel film!

[Eldar_Atog]

Except Daredevil, Elektra, Catwoman, Steel, any of the Fantastic Four movies, the last 3 Spiderman movies, Hulk, either of the Ghost Rider movies, all 3 Punisher movies, X-Men: The Last Stand, Supergirl, Superman 3 & 4 Batman Forever, Batman & Robin. There's really quite the list of superhero films that are worse than Man of Steel.

I have to disagree with you on some of these. As atrocious as Superman 3 and 4 were, they were at least Superman movies. Man of Steel almost felt like a violation of the ethics of Superman. It was kind of like watching a friend succumb to meth addiction. You grew up with this person but they are doing all these strange things. Being flirty in the pounded flat Metropolis.. breaking someone's neck with seemly no remorse. It just wasn't the person I grew up with.

I would say that Supergirl was a better Superman movie. As campy and silly as that movie was, it was still something I could recognize. Superman only appears in it as a picture but that was a bigger appearance than he made in Man of Steel.

Sorry for the mini rant but that movie really bothered me.

[Mr Mystery]

I have to disagree with you on some of these. As atrocious as Superman 3 and 4 were, they were at least Superman movies. Man of Steel almost felt like a violation of the ethics of Superman. It was kind of like watching a friend succumb to meth addiction. You grew up with this person but they are doing all these strange things. Being flirty in the pounded flat Metropolis.. breaking someone's neck with seemly no remorse. It just wasn't the person I grew up with.

I would say that Supergirl was a better Superman movie. As campy and silly as that movie was, it was still something I could recognize. Superman only appears in it as a picture but that was a bigger appearance than he made in Man of Steel.

Sorry for the mini rant but that movie really bothered me.

Pretty much the same here - and no real motivation for Zod to just destroy the earth. No attempt made to explore other options (Supes signs up, and they go terraform Mars for instance).

[Charistoph]

*flailsqueals*

No Black Widow film though, much bull****, very sexist, wow. So bad that by the time Captain Marvel has her film released there will be close to two dozen Marvel films by then. A decade of MCU and a token female is ****ing appalling.

If Marvel makes Thor 3 [as its first 2017 release], it will have made ten movies headlined by blond white men named Chris before it makes one movie headlined by someone who isn’t even white.” While not besmirching the talent or integrity of Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth and Chris Pratt, that’s taking lack of diversity to admirably comic levels.

— The Hollywood Reporter, “[URL="http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/warner-bros-dc-expose-marvels-741624"]Warner Bros. and DC Expose Marvel’s Achilles Heel: Diversity[/URL]"

To be sadly fair, the superhero genre isn't exactly rife with a low ratio of men to women in the first place, mostly due to boys being the target demographic for decades. It's changed in the comic industry a bit, but the old stand-bys are the ones our grandfathers grew up with, so that makes them "safe" from a Hollywood perspective. How many times has Superman, Batman, and Captain America "died", now?

At least Captain Marvel's getting her own movie. How is Wonder Woman's movie coming along, again?

A Black Widow movie? What do you get when you combine a reverse-gender James Bond with Batman's rogue gallery?

Curiosity question for those in the know, who was the first Marvel female hero to be a main-liner, (i.e. get her own line, not one-offs, but at least a few comics that weren't 1 of 4)?

[Wildeybeast]

DC said "hey guys, we're still realeasing some films too, guys? Hello? i really don't think I should be alone tonight ..."

DC seems to be staking its claim in the TV market, with Arrow, Flash and Gotham. Marvel only have AoS, though it is admittedly better than all DC's offerings.

[Eldar_Atog]

Curiosity question for those in the know, who was the first Marvel female hero to be a main-liner, (i.e. get her own line, not one-offs, but at least a few comics that weren't 1 of 4)?

My guess was She-Hulk but decided to look it up. In the 70's, She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Spider-Woman and Dazzler all had books. Marvel had had a few female books in the 50's but they were not set in what we think of as the Marvel universe. These books were printed when Marvel was known as Timely or Atlas comics.

So from 1960 till roughly 1975, you didn't have any major female characters that had their own monthly line. They were part of teams of mostly white males.

[Charistoph]

My guess was She-Hulk but decided to look it up. In the 70's, She-Hulk, Ms Marvel, Spider-Woman and Dazzler all had books. Marvel had had a few female books in the 50's but they were not set in what we think of as the Marvel universe. These books were printed when Marvel was known as Timely or Atlas comics.

So from 1960 till roughly 1975, you didn't have any major female characters that had their own monthly line. They were part of teams of mostly white males.

I'm not surprised about She-Hulk, only a little surprised about Spider-Woman (the red one, I assume) and Marvel. I had forgot completely about Dazzler.

She-Hulk would be a good one to go with for a separate movie, with it starting as a spin off from Hulk (the more recent Norton version), of course. That character can stand on her own, for sure, as easily as Marvel (maybe even easier).

I can't say I'm as familiar with Spider-Woman as even Dazzler, but I was focused more on the X-Men when I was younger. I saw her most in the Secret Invasion, sort of.

[eldargal]

DC seems to be staking its claim in the TV market, with Arrow, Flash and Gotham. Marvel only have AoS, though it is admittedly better than all DC's offerings.

Actually I'd say Gotham is up there with AoS at the same in its first series, and The Flash is pretty good too. I don't like Arrow.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm enjoying Gotham.

Now, for my weigh-in on the whole diversity issue.

Frankly, it's disappointing.

Marvel as a comics publisher have always been happy to push against social mores. X-Men are all about doing that. They're not scared to tackle social issues etc. Never have been, hopefully never will be. They just need to follow that through with the Movies.

I appreciate it's a very different market - but they should still show the same bravery as they did with their first black characters, first female characters, first gay characters etc and just be 'yes, yes they are. Your point was?'

[Charistoph]

I'm enjoying Gotham.

Now, for my weigh-in on the whole diversity issue.

Frankly, it's disappointing.

Marvel as a comics publisher have always been happy to push against social mores. X-Men are all about doing that. They're not scared to tackle social issues etc. Never have been, hopefully never will be. They just need to follow that through with the Movies.

I appreciate it's a very different market - but they should still show the same bravery as they did with their first black characters, first female characters, first gay characters etc and just be 'yes, yes they are. Your point was?'

The counter-point is do they make their long-term stars fit those molds, or do they like they have done in the comics (up till recently) to use them to introduce those types of characters? "Everyone" knows that Thor is a Viking-esque male god, so that means male and white. "Everyone" knows that Captain America was a blonde-haired white guy, because that's how WWII military mostly was (well, white, not necessarily blonde). "Everyone" knows what Iron Man is. Heck, it was pretty bold to make Nick Fury black, even though the Ultimates have him that way (and Sam Jackson was and is an excellent choice, imo). Black Widow is a russian woman, so having her be african or latina would have been off-putting (though Scarlet should have at least tried for an accent).

At least they kept Falcon as a black man and didn't kill him off during the fight.

And these other characters who fit the types that you want to see represented may have been great on their own today, just aren't as well known and wouldn't have had the draw to start with. Heck, they could have made Daredevil a gay latino, and only the comic fans would have known how off that was (that and the whole Electra side-line would have been... interesting).

So much like the comic lines, give them a chance to build up properly, we've just seen the first real super-hero team movie come out and they can diversify from there.

[Mr Mystery]

It's not about changing the gender or race of a given character, but using their ridiculously extensive catalogue of heroes and villains to reflect this.

Read about how Falcon's son responded to his Dad being cast - it's pretty powerful!

Most of the current crop weren't the best known. Iron Man and Thor in particular. But the success and passion of the movies made them household names.

Now yes, it does say something very sad about society in general that white men are still the most bankable bet - but they should have diversified so much sooner!