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  1. #1

    Default Anime cosplayer shot dead while being black.

    Compare this:
    [url]http://gawker.com/autopsy-cops-shot-black-anime-cosplayer-four-times-in-1652268367[/url]

    To this:
    [url]http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/teen-totes-shotgun-through-town-still-shaken-by-mass-murder-because-2nd-amendment/[/url]

    The juxtaposition of these two stories makes me feel sad in a way I can't quite put into words.
    AUT TACE AUT LOQUERE MELIORA SILENTIO

  2. #2

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    There was also that case with the black man shot dead by police for buying an airgun in a supermarket while other white people in the supermarket were walking around with assault rifles and stuff.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  3. #3
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    absolutely tragic, but a surprise to nobody. this happens every single day.
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  4. #4
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    I see the title of this thread, and I wonder at it - 'shot dead while being black'. He was also some other stuff. He was living, respiring, excreting, moving for food and shelter and all the other characteristics of a living animal. He probably had a sexuality - or was asexual. He was supposedly cosplaying. He was probably able to be characterised by 100 other factors but the title seems to feel it necessary to focus on his ethnicity.

    Why is that? That pretty much states the OP thinks all he had to do to be executed was to be black - that that was the pertinent point. To make the assumption that police just wantonly kill somebody just for being black, would be just as prejudiced as a policeman stereotyoing a black person as a dangerous armed criminal who needs to be shot first and asked questions later. it ignores the fact that many millions of black citizens carried out their daily business without being shot that day.

    Let me look at this scenario. Firstly, the picture in the original link , shows the character carries the sword back slung. However, the 'witness photo' in the guardian, you cannot see the sword back slung. Where is it? That is a pertinent question. You cannot see his hands. Is it in his hands? Has he downed it in accordance with the instructions of the policeman? The police do not seem to be in a firing stance so what went wrong from there?

    According to the article, his aunt said he had 'earbuds' in. Does this mean Walkman headphones? Did the witness picture show the minute in which police were instructing him to do something, did he misunderstand due to listening to loud music? Did he do something the police interpreted as a threat? Remember racism is in the eye of the beholder in English/Welsh law. So it is reasonable to accept that something a million people would not find threatening could appear to someone in society, as an unintentional threat, in the eye of a different beholder.

    The lawyer for the family says in the Guardian article 'how can you lunge at someone and be shot in the back at the same time?' The witness picture in the same article answers that. The police, in accordance with either good common sense, or department tactics, techniques and procedures, have split up. This causes the threat to divert their attention. The threat cannot engage both officers at once. So, he COULD have lunged at one and been shot in the back by the other. Simples.

    We know that at least one person here cosplaying in the UK, was challenged by the police for their sword in a Commissar kit. Was it Mr Mystery or Sotonshades? But to carry a weapon in the states, especially at t a time of heightened tensions, is not clever. it is not clear that he was even attending a scheduled event. However the policemen were not on a routine patrol- it was a response to a 911 emergency call. Someone in the general public was concerned enough by the individuals behaviour to call for an emergency response.

    I am NOT saying this is not an unlawful killing. I am not challenging that someone may be able to post a link to some stats that show young black males in the states are more likely to be shot by police.

    it may turn out that the he was in fact unlawfully killed in accordance with the laws of that state and in that case I hope they get the fullest penalty of that law.

    What I AM saying is that to automatically assume that the police were in the wrong is as prejudiced as a US copper automatically assuming all young black males are guilty of something and should therefore be shot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirsten View Post
    absolutely tragic, but a surprise to nobody. this happens every single day.
    Every single day?
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Denzark View Post
    Why is that? That pretty much states the OP thinks all he had to do to be executed was to be black - that that was the pertinent point. To make the assumption that police just wantonly kill somebody just for being black, would be just as prejudiced as a policeman stereotyoing a black person as a dangerous armed criminal who needs to be shot first and asked questions later. it ignores the fact that many millions of black citizens carried out their daily business without being shot that day.
    The unfortunate fact is, racism against blacks has run so deep and so long in America that yes, the rules are somewhat different. It doesn't (usually) manifest as "hey, kill the black guy!", but more subtle things. Cosplay is a geeky hobby, and the unstated assumption is still that only middle-class and up whites have the time and money to be geeky. So it's most likely not a case of intentional malice, as the thought never occurred to the officers that the weapon might be a prop, or that the guy might have a reason to be carrying a prop.

    Every single day?
    This is and isn't accurate; America is a country of 310+ million people, covering a land area roughly double that of the EU, so it's entirely probable that are at least 365 fatal interactions between police and citizens of African descent in a calendar year, when you take the entire country into account, but again, it's not a deliberate function. There's no checklist on the wall of the Podunk police station that says "DAILY TASKS: 1) unlock the doors, 2) turn on the lights, 3) make coffee, 4) shoot a black guy". It's just the culmination of a series of unfortunate factors.
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  6. #6

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    Similar stuff *does* happen to white people as well... but it's not as widely reported, because it's not good for media hype or for other vultures who jump all over tragedy for their own personal gain. Some cops act like freaking morons just because they know they can. Some don't go off too crazy, which is why the kid with the shotgun didn't get shot. He likely didn't have it in his hands.

    Now, I do think the kid with the shotgun was going about things the wrong way. You shouldn't carry a large weapon out in the open "to make people feel safer about guns" or anything like that. You can't make people feel safe about a weapon - even a freaking prop sword - if they don't want to. If you want to exercise your rights, just carry a pistol. The shotgun is going to be useless in a lot of cases because it's harder to get in position and fire, and you can't control it as well. A pistol is much better for personal defense outside the home.

  7. #7

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    Similar stuff *does* happen to white people as well...
    That pretty much states the OP thinks all he had to do to be executed was to be black - that that was the pertinent point. To make the assumption that police just wantonly kill somebody just for being black, would be just as prejudiced as a policeman stereotyoing a black person as a dangerous armed criminal who needs to be shot first and asked questions later. it ignores the fact that many millions of black citizens carried out their daily business without being shot that day.
    [url]http://gawker.com/black-teens-are-21-times-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-co-1644967653[/url]
    [url]http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/10/30/3586105/if-youre-a-black-kid-in-minneapolis-youre-16-times-more-likely-to-be-arrested-for-these-offenses/[/url]
    [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/racial-disparity-drug-use_n_3941346.html[/url]
    [url]http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/[/url]
    [url]http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet[/url]

    Stop thinking of racism as a problem exhibited by individuals. It's not. It's a problem inherent to the systems we live in.



    Still, there's none so deaf as those that don't want to listen. I'll leave a better voice than mine in the hopes you hear.

    Last edited by YorkNecromancer; 10-30-2014 at 01:24 PM.
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  8. #8
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    It always amuses me to find myself in a more liberal position than the liberals. You have looked at a situation, looked at the people in that situation, and said 'I think because of their colour and the institution they belong to, their actions were automatically at fault. If I on the flip side looked at a Los Angeles gang member of non-white ethnicity and automatically assumed murderous criminal, you would rightly be excoriating me.

    I have not said it will not play out that the cops were at fault - maybe they were. But from all the evidence posted at link, there is not enough to make an automatic assumption of their guilt. Making automatic assumptions because of someone's background is the root cause of racism.

    And also I think it a bit sad that someone whose job is to do a service to society no matter what the difficulty - who knows what it is for one's profession to be judged by outsiders who have no practical knowledge or experience of the job - to make automatic assumptions about the correctness of decisions made by another servant of society. Particularly when US police are subject to far more personal risk that UK teachers.

    But anyhoo you fling your stones inside your glass house.
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  9. #9

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    The problem with your logic, Denzark, is that because of the intersection between racism and also the general hero-worship given towards police and military in the US, it's far too easy for an officer to just shoot a subject until they stop moving regardless of the situation and get away with it with no repercussions. There were 122 line-of-duty fatalities in the US in 2013, a figure that includes any loss of life while on the job, including just being old and having a heart attack in the patrol car (happens 2-3 per year). Of that number, roughly half were killed by a suspect using a weapon. Contrast that with the approximately 900,000 sworn police officers in the US. There's very little actual danger to be had in police work in this country, and yet they talk and act as though being under siege every day.
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  10. #10
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    Still more line-of-duty fatalities than secondary school teachers. I think a more telling figure would be the amount of incident responses in which weapons were drawn by the officers, versus amount of suspects with functioning weapons. Then you know potential danger.

    And if Police Officers are 'getting away with no repercussions' it doesn't mean that all of them are or do, or that they are all guilty of institutional racism or over-reacting.
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