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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren Richardson View Post
    Chipping paintwork is mostly due to type of paint used (chemical balance and ingredants and such) and temperture the models are constaly kept at, as metal contract and shrinks in very hot and very cold tempertures.
    Also, once your done, varnish them to protect them
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  2. #62

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    Doesn't always work, as my Classic mid 90's Empire Mortar has found out
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  3. #63

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    This is really a generational thing it seems. Younger gamers seem to have different motivations than a lot of the older gamers. If you are a hobbyist or love painting and modeling than plastics no matter how good are always inferior to metal and resin where figures are concerned. For vehicle plastics are great but the limitations of the injection molding process will always give you either and inferior pose and result or a model that has to be assembled from tons of tiny fidgety parts in order to get the kind of detail and dynamic posing you get with resin and metal in models with far fewer parts.

    Take a look at the Malifaux figs. Wonderful models that come close to metal and resin quality but they are a HUGE paint to assemble and clean. Far worse than the most fidgety metal model.

    I hear complaints about the Thunderfire Cannon in metal all the time. I have three of them sitting right beside me and I found them to be no big deal. I honestly think we are just talking about the difference in modern gamers who probably never built plastic models of airplanes and ships growing up vs kids who grew up playing video games, building with legos and playing instant reward games like card games etc...

    Companies are doing the right thing going to plastic but for those of us who love to model it is heart breaking.

    For example I just built 40 Assault Marines in jump packs. 30 were a combination of the Blood Angles plastics and the new kits and 10 were the metal Vanguard Veterans. The metal models are just SO SO SO much nicer. Better detail, better poses, more dynamic. Also the plastics take so long to properly clean up mold lines. YUCK!!

    Plus when Im paying such a huge amount for a model I want the figure I move around to feel like it has some value vs just being a little plastic soldier like it came out of a cheapie bag from Wal Mart.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stucarius View Post
    If you are a hobbyist or love painting and modeling than plastics no matter how good are always inferior to metal and resin where figures are concerned.
    I cannot agree even for a moment. Painting metal is like trying to sculpt water* and resin's habit of bending on hot days means it is only briefly of any use as modelling material.

    High density polystyrene, meanwhile, takes primer like it was born to and can be modelled any way you want it to thanks to its ability to be welded together with poly cement.

    *A pre-emptive note to any and all smart alecs: in its liquid phase. If I had meant ice I would have said "ice."

    Quote Originally Posted by Stucarius View Post
    For vehicle plastics are great but the limitations of the injection molding process will always give you either and inferior pose and result or a model that has to be assembled from tons of tiny fidgety parts in order to get the kind of detail and dynamic posing you get with resin and metal in models with far fewer parts.
    ...are you sure you love modelling? This reads like you view it as a chore.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stucarius View Post
    I honestly think we are just talking about the difference in modern gamers who probably never built plastic models of airplanes and ships growing up vs kids who grew up playing video games, building with legos and playing instant reward games like card games etc...
    Personally, I *did* grow up building model airplanes and ships, and it's because of that experience that I avoid metal like the plague. Give me a crisp, clean set of styrene sprues over heavy, awkward, lifeless metal any day.

    Companies are doing the right thing going to plastic but for those of us who love to model it is heart breaking.
    You speak entirely for yourself there. Especially when it comes to conversions, y'know, those personal touches that shows that it's *your* model that *you* built instead of just another piece off the assembly line. Plastic is easier to cut, easier to discern detail in the unpainted stage, and in the worst case scenario if it gets dropped, the metal won't bend and send any decorative bits you might have added shooting off in random directions.
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  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'nSmurfs View Post
    I have the White Dwarf from when they eliminated lead. They decided to do it for safety reasons.
    Safety to avoid lawsuits over a PROPOSED ban on lead in childrens' toys ( this was a motion an American Senator wished to propose. Many metal miniature producers did the shift - Ral Partha amongst them, switching to lead-free "Ralidium". GW's was equally tinny and hard (if you didn't snip bits off inside a baggie, they would embed themselves in walls or you - little chunks of shrapnel). The ban never went ahead, but by the time that happened, the changeover had already been done, and switching back at that point would have cost more money.

    When they went back to a softer alloy (still lead free) Lead was replaced by another metal with similar casting properties. Lead was used in the alloy to start with because it Casts detail easily (it won't HOLD it, though, so other metals are added to the alloy to provide that aspect - like tin). but it's an accumulative toxin. Workers in foundries that use lead castings GET TESTED MONTHLY - and the amount of lead that the average gamer would be exposed to doesn't even approach those levels. UNLESS YOU INGEST it. Quite frankly, if johnny is eating his Space Marine figures, then you have bigger issues than just lead toxicity (like why is he doing it?)
    Excuse the frequent sarcasm. I'm an Aussie. It's part and parcel of whom we are.
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  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by chromedog View Post
    Safety to avoid lawsuits over a PROPOSED ban on lead in childrens' toys ( this was a motion an American Senator wished to propose. Many metal miniature producers did the shift - Ral Partha amongst them, switching to lead-free "Ralidium". GW's was equally tinny and hard (if you didn't snip bits off inside a baggie, they would embed themselves in walls or you - little chunks of shrapnel). The ban never went ahead, but by the time that happened, the changeover had already been done, and switching back at that point would have cost more money.
    Yup. Though I thought it was an EU thing rather than American.

    Either way, they did the right thing in making the change before the ban. Just because an attempt to ban failed, doesn't mean it wouldn't leave them open to lawsuits about the lead, or the ban being campaigned for again in the future.
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  8. #68

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    Firstly, Jonsgot,
    Can you imagine how people would react if the government started making plastic coins? Metal has more raw value and will always do so.
    . You cracked me up man. Here in Aus the notes are made out of plastic.

    As for finecast, I have had problems with every purchase I have had. The weapons on my second batch of Warlocks all warped out of shape and no amount of warm water & and pressing will resolve the issue as they go again. I saw a beautifully painted squad of Rangers at a games day, but their sniper rifles were suffering from serious brewers droop. Literally the rifle barrels looked like they could not support their own weight and just drooped to the floor. It does not work for big models either. My Wraith Seer model required saving because the haft of its glaive looked like the Serpentine road on the norther beaches, (I'm sure the name gives you the idea). In the end I cut a piece from a wire coat hanger and fit the head of the glaive and hand to it.

    As far as metal is concerned, I prefer it to finecast. I like the weight other people complain about and I solved the paint wear by spraying mat varnish onto the figure. Coat the figure in a cloud rather than drenching it and you get a hard wearing model that does not discolour with age.

    Plastics are my preference though over all. They can match detail with anything now and all models have tolerance limits. For example, my metal Banshee exarch uses the plastic glaive from the Dire Avenger kit for the Executioner because it flexes rather than breaks when it catches. I went through 3 metal ones before I worked that one out. I do agree that Zoanthropes suffered horribly under finecast. I never saw one that was not out of kilter and subject to wobbly model syndrome. Not enough contact point with its base and finecast has no tolerance for weight.

  9. #69
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    Yeah, Jonsgot... the idea that our money should have intrinsic value is a particularly American eccentricity. We inherited it from the Silver Standard nonsense of the 1800s. The rest of the world got over that a long time ago.
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricPaladin View Post
    Yeah, Jonsgot... the idea that our money should have intrinsic value is a particularly American eccentricity. We inherited it from the Silver Standard nonsense of the 1800s. The rest of the world got over that a long time ago.
    Not to mention the fact that other countries have yearly reviews of the composition of metals in their coins, to make sure the coin itself is worth less than its intended value, hence why we don't use copper in Britain anymore, at least not on 1/2p coins.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

 

 
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