Warhammer 40,000 End Times - What would it look like?

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Dunno about you, but I'm currently greatly enjoying the ongoing Warhammer End Times series. For those in the dark about it, in short it's a massive advancement of the Warhammer World. We don't even know if it's going to have a defined end, or if it's simply a new and deeply groovy status quo. Either way, we already have some major shake ups, which I won't go into here. Suffice to say Archaon (Sword and Board Abaddon for all intents and purposes) is coming, and the Old World is in for a proper kicking.

And I think we might just see the same thing happen for 40k, given the apparent success of End Times in Warhammer (books selling out on day of release, good levels of enthusiasm etc).

But as the title asks - what exactly would that look like?

First up the obvious - the 13th Black Crusade breaks properly. Not Storm of Chaos 'it happened, then it didn't' 13th Black Crusade, but the sure and certain beginning of the end 13th Black Crusade.

So Chaos v Imperium, with the Eldar sticking their metaphorical oar in as suits them. But that leaves Dark Eldar, Orks, Necron, Tau and Tyranids largely out in the cold. Except.....does it? The Imperium would have to respond en masse to a Black Crusade, and that weakens them elsewhere. Opportunities abound (look at what the Tau did last time the Imperium was forced to leave off) and whole sectors could fall not just into anarchy, but entirely from Imperium control.

Right, scene set. Speculate away! And don't forget - proper, proper casualties, as in 'dead in the face' dead. Warhammer has already seen the demise of Kurt Helborg and The Grand Theogonist, not to mention the Supreme Patriarch of Magic go all Necromancer on them. Various Undead characters are now proper dead (Nagash. Him no like word 'no', and he'll boil your brain if he wants to!).

[ElectricPaladin]

I think that you - or someone who plays more Fantasy than I do - is going to have to answer some questions first:

• What are the End Times books, exactly?
• Do they come one after the other, in a series, or are they each alternate takes on the end of the Warhammer world?
• Are they meant to be a one-off narrative/campaign or are they intended to clear the way for a new take on the setting?

If we're talking about a series of events, for example, we probably want to hold off on the ones that are going to really devastate the setting, like the return of the Enslaver Plague or the 13th Black Crusade or the Hive Fleets arriving at Terra, and start with things that have the potential to be apocalyptic, but more localized, like the Tau developing true Warp travel and starting a major space war with the Imperium or the Lords of Terra launching an ill-fated campaign to finally seize control of the Astartes chapters.

So, while I've clearly got ideas, I think that we need a better idea of our goal format, first.

[Mr Mystery]

Good questions...

1. Mostly background. Each entry so far has been two books. One pure background, the other new units, and new rules (for the units, and ways to play)

2. Ongoing narrative at the moment. Nagash kicked things off, and has had the largest background book, as it dwelt on the general setting changes across the world, as well as what Boney O'Boneington has been up to.

3. We just don't know at this stage. That it's permanent seems a safe bet. But whether or not there is a defined end to come, no idea. I suspect not, but that's mostly a gut feeling (certainly aren't winding up the game. The stuff they're releasing represent a significant cash investment in terms of development and production).

[Wildeybeast]

A good and not necessarily easy set of questions to answer.

There have been two sets of books so far, Nagash and Glottkin. Both sets consist of one source/fluff book and one book of new rules and scenarios. They come one after the other, but the events are dated (according to the Imperial Calendar) and have actually been happening pretty much concurrently.

Nagash was massive as it set up the starting position of all the races, then dealt with the resurrection of Nagash and his conquest of Nekhehkara (mummy undead conquered by vampire undead). Glottkin dealt with a massive Chaos invasion of the Empire. It looks like each End Times book focuses on a few of the different armies. So far its been Undead (both flavours) and Empire and Chaos (Nurgle). Rampant speculation is the next one will focus on the on the elves.

In terms of what happens in the fluff, we have special characters (including ones with existing models and rules) being killed off and entire nations being wiped out (though none of the ones with playable armies). Oh and the return of Super Big Bads and actual gods.

As for the rules books, they have made some big changes. They have changed the limitations on army selections (HeroHammer is back) and allowed players to field combined Undead and Chaos army lists. You still need the individual army books, but you can now mix and match units from them as you like. These count in all games of Warhammer. there are also a raft of new units and characters that can be taken for the armies featured in the books. Then there are optional rules to use as you like (for example rules on city fighting) and narrative scenarios based on the fluff books.

Phew, I think that covers everything.

[ElectricPaladin]

Ok, so if we want to follow that pattern, my random suggestions are...

Book One: Tau vs. Eldar
• Plot: Tau attack a Craftworld in the hope of stealing their technology in preparation for a major offensive against the Imperium
• Major Players: Tau, Eldar
• Minor Players: Dark Eldar, Daemons (broken Eldar technology and many tasty Eldar souls leads to Daemonic incursions)

Book Two: Eldar vs. Dark Eldar
• Plot: After suffering terribly at the hands of the rapacious Tau, the Craftworld Eldar attack the Dark Eldar in the hopes of stealing portions of the webway and saving the lives of the Craftworlds that are slowly failing thanks to damage sustained in Book One.
• Major Players: Eldar, Dark Eldar
• Minor Players: Daemons (same reason as in Book One)

Book Three: Tau vs. Imperium
• Plot: Bolstered by stolen Eldar technology, including the ability to travel more quickly through the Webway, the Tau finally launch their apocalyptic final war against the Imperium!
• Major Players: Tau, Imperium
• Minor Players: Everyone else (damn opportunists)

Book Four: The 13th Black Crusade
• Plot: With the Imperium reeling from the Tau invasion and the loss of many worlds, Abaddon launches his 13th Black Crusade!
• Major Players: Chaos Marines, Imperium
• Minor Players: Chaos Daemons, Tau (defending their holdings from "reconquest" by Abaddon)

Book Five: Tyranids vs. Daemons
• Plot: As **** starts to get truly dire, Daemons and 'Nids face off for who gets to be the one to eat the galaxy.
• Major Players: Tyrands vs. Daemons
• Minor Players: Chaos Marines (helping out Daemons), everyone else (getting caught in the middle)

Book Six: Necrons vs. Everyone
• Plot: The Necrons finish waking up, decide to kill everyone, while the Silent King engages in some good old-fashioned civil war in an effort to clean house and establish himself as the Necron overlord
• Major Players: Necrons vs Everyone
• Minor Players: No one, the Necrons hate everyone.

Book Seven: The New Imperium
• Plot: Abaddon stands astride Terra and attempts to solidify his gains by forcing the Astartes to obey or die.
• Major Players: A new "Dark Imperium" army list that combines elements of AM and Daemons and Chaos Marines vs. Space Marines
• Minor Players: Everyone else (Abaddon isn't above a little tertiary slaughter)

Not sure where to go after that...

[Wildeybeast]

Who killed the Orks?

[Mr Mystery]

Probs The Orks

Which reminds me.....Codex Ghaz, along with various bits of background for 13th Black Crusade being in readiness makes me wonder just how wishlisty 40k End Times is!

I reckon we'd see Abaddon repulsed, but at the cost of a vastly reduced Imperium, which might prove just the tonic for the old beast that it is. Right now it's stretched ridiculously thin. Imagine if the Astartes could be more concentrated....

[ElectricPaladin]

Oh, yeah. I forgot the Orks. I never much liked them anyway.

[Gwhizz84]

Don't forget Eldar vs Chaos, rhana dandra stylé!

[StraightSilver]

Ok, I'd like to see something much more radical (wish listing here for Hollywood style epic moment!).

Ordo Xenos discover the Tyranid Incursions were just small scouting forces, huge disturbances begin to occur in both real space and warp space.

Huge Hive Fleets in numbers never seen before emerge and start to devastate real space, new Tyranid creatures are seen for the first time and the Hive Mind is fully realised.

The Eldar take huge losses, the psychic scream of the Hive Mind destabalises the astronomicon and the Imperium is thrown into chaos.

Imperial forces take heavy losses, the Eldar retreat to the web way where they shelter from the Tryranid advance. After a brief struggle Eldar and dark Eldar form an alliance for the sake of saving what's left of their race.

The Gods of the warp realise that without the souls of mortals in real space they will cease to exist, as the Tyranids have no warp presence, and send their forces to aid the Imperials.

Shocked Imperial forces find themselves helped by their mortal enemies against the Tyranid advance. The help is at first unwanted, but then in a classic Hollywood "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" an uneasy alliance is formed.

Radical Ordo Malleus inquisitors use this to push for power and the distinction between good and evil is blurred.

The Orks amass into the biggest Waaaaghhh ever seen and their psychic presence pushes back the Tyranid advance for the first time. The Orks take on the Tyranids, for a laugh and rampage through Tau held areas of space. The Tau retreat leaving their worlds behind and become a broken Empire, fighting alongside both Chaos and Imperial forces alike.

The Necrons, sensing an alliance between all sentient races cannot stay sleeping, and fully awake. They attack absolutely everyone.

This cements the uneasy alliances further, but the Blood Angels' proximity to Chaos forces drives them over the edge and they succumb in full to the Black Rage, turning from the Emperor embracing Khorne.

The Eldar and Dark Eldar finally leave the safety of the web way and with the fractured Tau Empire take the fight to the Necrons.

With the Orks temporarily occupying the Tyranids the Imperium realises it has made a huge mistake accepting help from Chaos and all bets are off, they take the fight to everybody.

With the Blood Angels lost, Imperial forces devastated, Marine Chapters on the verge of extinction and the Inquisition fighting it's own to purge the radicals within it's ranks the High Lords of Terra make a decision that could change the Imperium forever.

They open the deepest dungeons of Terra and release two prisoners held captive there for 10,000 years......