A change to Space Marine Dreadnoughts

[silashand]

These are supposed to be marines that were so valuable they weren't allowed to die....

This...

[Houghten]

When I first saw "HP3" as a way to improve Dreads, my first reaction was... "...What, they don't have 3 Hull Points?!"

Actually, they do.

[YorkNecromancer]

When I first saw "HP3" as a way to improve Dreads, my first reaction was... "...What, they don't have 3 Hull Points?!"

Oops! My bad.

Not a bad idea, the only problem then is that a Dreadnought could be affected by Poisoned weapons. I guess it could be assumed the poison got through to the pilot.

I thought Poisoned basically meant 'adapted to kill whatever we're fighting', so it's actual poison for Tyranids, but some super-futuristic version of Hydrofluoric acid against Necrons/Marines, so it just eats straight through the armour.

Give them better armor, give them better weapons, make them good in assault, and they might actually get played.

Kheres Assault Cannon stats for the Assault Cannon option, perhaps? Multiple shots from the Missile Launcher (or perhaps Ignores Cover, like Broadsides?) Plasma Cannons that don't Get Hot? Make the twin-linked Lascannon strength 10? Or perhaps give it bonuses to the vehicle damage table above and beyond what it already does?

As for assault, maybe give Dreadnought Power Fists some kind of mini-'stomp' attack, like a Knight; maybe something like they get a single small blast they can place in contact with their base; everything underneath takes a normal strength, but ap2 hit?

[Mr Mystery]

Just make the missile launcher a Cyclone. Perhaps special missile types?

[YorkNecromancer]

Perhaps special missile types?

I suppose the thing is working out what each weapon is supposed to do, and making the Dreadnought version better at that than the 'standard' version.

So:

Assault Cannon - dedicated light-medium infantry killer. Has the side effect of being useful against light vehicles/aircraft.
Missile Launcher - reasonable at killing everything without actually being as good as a dedicated weapon.
Lascannon - dedicated antitank.
Plasma Cannon - dedicated heavy infantry killer.
Power Fist - HULK SMASH!

So make the Assault Cannon better at toasting infantry, the Missile Launcher slightly better at killing everything (but still not as good as the other stuff), let the Lascannon ravage tanks of AV14 with ease, make the Plasma Cannon more reliable, and let the Power Fist be something to genuinely fear in assault (give it two modes: one for dealing with tarpits, one for smashing vehicles/characters).

That and let all Mortis dreadnoughts have the 'Interceptor+Skyfire as long as you don't move' rule.

[commissarmike]

I've been saying for years what a few have in this thread: Make them Monstrous Creatures.

I think that is literally the best way to make them useful and put them on par with similar units.

[Venomlust]

I also want to see a dreadnought chapter master variant.

[DarkLink]

I suppose the thing is working out what each weapon is supposed to do, and making the Dreadnought version better at that than the 'standard' version.

So:

Assault Cannon - dedicated light-medium infantry killer. Has the side effect of being useful against light vehicles/aircraft.
Missile Launcher - reasonable at killing everything without actually being as good as a dedicated weapon.
Lascannon - dedicated antitank.
Plasma Cannon - dedicated heavy infantry killer.
Power Fist - HULK SMASH!

So make the Assault Cannon better at toasting infantry, the Missile Launcher slightly better at killing everything (but still not as good as the other stuff), let the Lascannon ravage tanks of AV14 with ease, make the Plasma Cannon more reliable, and let the Power Fist be something to genuinely fear in assault (give it two modes: one for dealing with tarpits, one for smashing vehicles/characters).

That and let all Mortis dreadnoughts have the 'Interceptor+Skyfire as long as you don't move' rule.

The assault cannon is still pretty good. I definitely agree the missile launcher should be upgraded to a cyclone missile launcher. Lascannons and plasma cannons should probably get a bit of a buff, they're a little meh for the price point. And Dreadnoughts should definitely get a few more attacks and probably WS5 in combat. That extra little bit of ranged firepower, assault punch, a bit heavier armor, and remaining at a reasonable price point, and you would see a lot more on the table.

[Dave Mcturk]

When I first saw "HP3" as a way to improve Dreads, my first reaction was... "...What, they don't have 3 Hull Points?!" That'd be a good place to start. Make 'em AV13 on the front so they don't get Krak Grenaded into dust and actually give them the melee options to take 2 Dread CCWs. Basically make them Furiosos, or at least give them that option.

Beyond that, if survivability is such an issue, why not just make the Techmarine more viable? Just by applying a bit of real-world logic, you'd think that Vehicles would have an advantage over MCs in that Vehicles can be repaired and rebuilt, while it often takes a long time for a MC to heal or recover from serious injuries (Old One Eye notwithstanding).

As for making Dreads into MCs, I don't see why not. HP are practically wounds, seeing as how it's nearly impossible to actually kill something with a penetrating hit. You can just give them USRs like Inorganic (vulnerable to Armorbane and Melta, immune to Fleshbane and Poison), Inexhaustible Engine (WS0, but can always run maximum distance and becomes WS1 when it does so) and Relentless.

the 'monstrous creature / vehicle' meld is a great idea - but applies across the board to all 'hybrids' such as riptides and wraithknights - since 7th is an improvement on 6th dont think the mechanism is going to be implemented this time around.

lots of ppl have suggested this - the problem becomes 'D' weapons - that will kill monstrous creatures - maybe they will need to be changed to 'multiple effects' rather than instant death. also monstrous creatures - although generally easier to hide and kill than vehicles - do not suffer from 'damage' effects - the whole thing is a bit of a mess to be fair.

another great opportunity for 'house rules'

[Zaonite]

It's true Dreadnoughts aren't what they used to be. But over the editions their role has changed.
I see "vanilla" Dreadnoughts now as fire magnets. A good distraction for your opponent to deal with while your army advances.

Dropping a dreadnought in the rear armour of your opponent's tanks on turn 1 and hitting it with a Multimelta kind of gets their attention.

YorkNecromancers weapon buffs are quite nice too. The combat element needs addressing though.
Being able to perform a sweep attack in combat would be very nice.

Dreadnoughts are supposed to be super advanced too. Maybe they could have a rule allowing it to self repair (rerouting power systems maybe) if it is wrecked.
Or even just alter the damage chart so a 7+ is "remove an additional hull point". This would lead to most vehicles not being able to be "one-shotted".