A change to Space Marine Dreadnoughts

[Greatwolf]

Back armor 11. Explosion results d3 hull points similar to imperial knights.

[ReveredChaplainDrake]

When I first saw "HP3" as a way to improve Dreads, my first reaction was... "...What, they don't have 3 Hull Points?!" That'd be a good place to start. Make 'em AV13 on the front so they don't get Krak Grenaded into dust and actually give them the melee options to take 2 Dread CCWs. Basically make them Furiosos, or at least give them that option.

Beyond that, if survivability is such an issue, why not just make the Techmarine more viable? Just by applying a bit of real-world logic, you'd think that Vehicles would have an advantage over MCs in that Vehicles can be repaired and rebuilt, while it often takes a long time for a MC to heal or recover from serious injuries (Old One Eye notwithstanding).

As for making Dreads into MCs, I don't see why not. HP are practically wounds, seeing as how it's nearly impossible to actually kill something with a penetrating hit. You can just give them USRs like Inorganic (vulnerable to Armorbane and Melta, immune to Fleshbane and Poison), Inexhaustible Engine (WS0, but can always run maximum distance and becomes WS1 when it does so) and Relentless.

[spagunk]

As a BA player, I can say that Front AV 13 is really nice.

[Anggul]

5+ invulnerable save

Plasma Cannon: +1 shot

Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter: +1S, +1 shot

Multi-Melta: Twin-linked

Assault cannon: free

Twin-Linked lascannon: -15pts

Power Fist: 'Sweep' attack option. May substitute attacks stat with
number of enemy models in base contact.



Survivability is probably the least of their problems. For a big and fairly expensive model they cause barely any damage at all. There's simply no point in their guns when you can have a Devastator squad with four of them for not much more or indeed any other shooty unit. Their weapons are clearly bigger, make them better and worth taking them for. Also make it so they can fight their way out of a wet paper bag when they have a power fist.

[Moises Martinez]

They shoukd either make them similiar to bray'arth where he can forgoe 1 attack to make an auto hit to each model in base to base at like str6 ap- or just make them cheaper and possibly squad them up cause even at 100pts they are still useless. They are so many cheap units that just woop them...

[lupo1982]

None of above
Make them monstrous creature res 7with 4wounds
If a Riptide is a Mc why dreddy shouldn't?

[silashand]

Agreed. Give 'em a slight point discount and you'd see 'em get some playing time.

Nope. Subpar units rarely show up in games I have noted regardless their point cost. If they aren't going to be able to occasionally earn their points back before dying it won't matter if you lower their cost. That's why you almost never see combat dreads anymore. I know I haven't seen one in literally years. I tried playing a couple a while back and they just died before getting anywhere near combat which is what I expected. They need an upgrade of some sorts to make them more survivable. Until they get that they will remain on the shelf no matter how cool the models might be. Personally I think they should simply change them all to work like MCs. It never made any sense that an Eldar Wraithlord had better rules than a dreadnought and they both operate pretty much the same. It's not like you couldn't immobilize a WL by blowing a leg off or destroy a weapon by shooting his gun. But that's why people occasionally play them and not dreads. Because they can take a hit and still live long enough to do something useful. Dreads... not so much.

[Balor]

Well a 5++ is not bad but -20 points would go a long way.

[Moises Martinez]

Making them MC's would partially fix the problem. When compared to other units for the same cost they are not "killy" enough to make me want to play them. They get bogged down so easily. They just do not have enough attacks or shots to make them a viable option.

[sfshilo]

Why is the pinnacle of space marine tech....
A. Have three hp.
B. Have no invuln.
C. Have av12.
D. Have worse armor then their flyers?
E. Is a walker with two shooting weapons?

You want a good dread? 5++ for normal 4++ for venerable, immune to melta, av 13/13/10, 3 hp, ws/bs5 with venerable at 6.

These are supposed to be marines that were so valuable they weren't allowed to die....