A change to Space Marine Dreadnoughts

[JMichael]

I think a 5+ as an upgrade would be cool.
But as a non-SM player (Eldar/Sisters) I would like to see a front AV13. I think that would help a lot.

[Psychosplodge]

They should be AV14 I'm sure I've seen fluff that compares their armour to a land raiders before. They're supposed to be really heavily armoured.

[Reldane]

Dreadnoughts have been getting progressively cheaper and cheaper and cheaper (except for GK dreadnoughts, which with the new codex inexplicably both got significantly worse and significantly more expensive simultaneously) and it hasn't made anyone play them. Give them better armor, give them better weapons, make them good in assault, and they might actually get played.

Dreadnaughts are more durable than they have been for years (only ap2 or better weapons can get destroyed, nerfs to Monstrous creatures vehicle wrecking abilities), and as DarkLink points out have come down in price, especially the venerable and Ironclad versions, but still see little play. Where they do see play it is often as a long range gun platform and it is often considered a viable stratagem to lock it down with a large squad of cheep bodies.

in my opinion Dreadnaughts need more weapon options, not more more durability. Give them some dreadnaught only weapons, make the missile launcher into a typhoon missile launcher, drop the cost on the other gun upgrades. If a dreadnaught is geared for close combat, then it needs some added survivability and enough attacks that locking it down with a unit of 20 throw away troops isn't as much of an option. Give the same dreadnaught to CSM, re-tune the hellbrute (to be good) to be a viable dreadnaught variant in a similar way to Ironclad. Honestly I don't know the new Space wolf flavored Dreadnaught well enough to do anything but laugh at the naming convention.

[Angelus Mortifer]

I think an Invul of some description would add a bit of longevity, and there are probably enough delivery systems to get them up-field now if necessary. The main issue I have is they're huge slabs of adamantium with massive power fists etc, and the fluff often portrays them being able to wade through enemies in close assault. Yet the rules have them able to be tarpitted by all and sundry.

I hoped that with 7th they would give them like a Stomp attack vs all enemies in B2B, in addition to their base attacks, but maybe at I1... but Knights got the Stomp in the end. If they could give them some sort of equivalent they may see more table time.

[Mr Mystery]

Thinking back to 2nd Edition (long time!)

Twin-lascannons could alter where they hit a vehicle on the damage location roll - this meant they could do more damage overall, as hitting a sponson had minimal chance of destroying the vehicle, but hitting the hull meant serious troub for the tank.

Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters and Storm Bolter could all ignore the first Jam on each turns sustained fire dice

Multimelta could also fire as a Heavy Flamer

Powerfist did extra damage against vehicles.

Nothing massively powerful overall, but put them above standard weapon equivalents

[Mr Mystery]

More than anything else, points cost is the crucial detail. As a CSM player, I'd just be happy if they removed the stupid crazed table and left everything else as-is. We have fancy dreads now via forge world and they're all just way too expensive for what they're capable of, and lack the superior drop pod of the astartes. Did I really just turn this into a poor wittle chaos rant? Whoops...

I think this answers your question

[Dave Mcturk]

I voted for the 5+ inv cause its seems wacky that terminators have it but they dont, theyre even more awesome and archaic, front armour 13 would also be cool too possibly with ceramite plating rule which the storm-raven has, so it would make sense dreads would have it to take em through rough atmosphere

from 6th and now through 7th - lots of things could do with an IV save - wraithlords and wraithguard are other examples

the overall problem is GW dont care; and house rules only work for the small player groups at clubs.

my opinion for 7th is that all front armour slots should go up ONE AP on almost all non- skimmer vehicles - A10/A11 is ultra vulnerable and A12 isnt much better. even A10 skimmers should arguably be A11 on the front.

Orc dredds are pretty poor [sorry shocking] - but at least they can access a 5+ save and repair rolls.

[Bob821]

Why not make them MC's? Riptides are and so are wraith knights. Both really walkers IMO. T8 A5 W5 2+ 5+, fleet and 160pts plus weapons and war gear of which there needs to be a big selection of very nasty stuff. Fluff wise they are total monsters, but I've lost combats to riptides with my Death Company Dreads! I dont feel they need a little tweek they need a huge shake up. I maybe off with points the only way to check would be to play test and see how they go. They are Space Marine icons piloted by the sort of marines that other marines look up. They should reflect this.

[This Dave]

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Why not make them MC's? Riptides are and so are wraith knights. Both really walkers IMO. T8 A5 W5 2+ 5+, fleet and 160pts plus weapons and war gear of which there needs to be a big selection of very nasty stuff. Fluff wise they are total monsters, but I've lost combats to riptides with my Death Company Dreads! I dont feel they need a little tweek they need a huge shake up. I maybe off with points the only way to check would be to play test and see how they go. They are Space Marine icons piloted by the sort of marines that other marines look up. They should reflect this.

Not a bad idea, the only problem then is that a Dreadnought could be affected by Poisoned weapons. I guess it could be assumed the poison got through to the pilot.

Up-armoring and adding an invulnerable save would help as the the things are supposed to be near indestructible. And slightly better stats would help too. They're supposed to be Space Marine heroes, or for Ork dreads you'd think only a Nob would have the teef to buy one.

[Greatwolf]

I agree. 5++ standard for every dreadnought variant, along with a rule like "Ancient Arsenal" which makes bullet weapons rending and everything else master crafted or twin-linked-- something like that.

I like the loyalist dreadnought options, with the ability to upgrade to venerable, blood angels/wolfy variants etc. I very much like customizability in a unit.

More than anything else, points cost is the crucial detail. As a CSM player, I'd just be happy if they removed the stupid crazed table and left everything else as-is. We have fancy dreads now via forge world and they're all just way too expensive for what they're capable of, and lack the superior drop pod of the astartes. Did I really just turn this into a poor wittle chaos rant? Whoops...

Back armor 11 and explode results takes d3 hull points similar to imperial knights.