A change to Space Marine Dreadnoughts

[YorkNecromancer]

General internets wisdom says Dreadnoughts aren't survivable enough to be viable.

Taking this to be true, which of the following changes would you make? The points, weapon options, everything else stays the same. What gets changed?

FA = front armour; SA = side armour; HP = hull points; AV = armour values.

[jeffersonian000]

Hull points really hurt Dreadnoughts and other light vehicles. Giving Dreads the SHW treatment and allowing them to ignore the pen chart would greatly improve their usefulness.

SJ

[Cactus]

I think that the points per dread should be lower, as well as adding multiple dreads (perhaps units of 3) per unit selection.

[Mr Mystery]

Dreads need more spangle.

They're ancient heroes of their Chapter, but don't inspire those around them, and hav middling stats.

Their weapon systems, once upon a time were relics of the chapter - are now average.

They needs a soup up

[40kGamer]

Revisiting the Lucius Pod or coming up with a delivery system to move them across the table could make Dreads more viable. Agree they need a serious buffing... Once they were special, but the game has expanded so much that now they are just tired and old.

[GrauGeist]

I say no changes. Bring everything else down in power, and get rid of the chrome.

If that doesn't work, bring the points down.

Adding more stuff simply makes the game more of a mess.

[Power Klawz]

I kind of feel the opposite about the whole monstrous creature thing. When the riptide was announced as a monstrous creature it never sat right with me. Even the Wraith Knight makes little sense to me, its got a pilot and its a machine, its not a creature of any sort no matter how many spirit stones you cram into it. I would have much rather had all the "monstrous machines" left as walkers with individual special rules to characterize them appropriately.

All that being said the only thing that needs to happen for dreads is more survivability. 5++ would probably do it, with the option to purchase better invulns. Venerables should get another hull point for a total of 4.

CSM dreads need a 5++ baseline and the options to take "marklike things." Nurgle should give them shrouded, Tzeentch should give 4++, khorne should give rampage and Slaanesh should give IWND to make up for vehicles not getting fnp.

also, non khorne marked csm dreads should have the option of taking psycher levels because that would be awesome.

I think ork dreads are fine as is, possibly with the exception of giving them the standalone option to take a KFF without needing a Morkanaut or big mek chaperon. Possible points reduction might be in order too.

also making the unit size 1-3 for all of the aforementioned 'naughts would help immensely as well. It's impossible to run my (admittedly hilariously useless) dread mob composed of 2 deff dreads, 6 killa kanz and a morkanaut within a single FOC, which makes me quite sad.

[daboarder]

I like those ideas claw.

I'm also of the opinion that dreads need to get their "relic" status back. Instead of just plasma cannons and heavy bolters they should have up gunned variants and rare tech, give them conversion beamers, hades autocannons, ectoplasm, bale flamers, melta cannon things etc.....they are hearoes of the chapter and should be as such again. maybe giving them access to vehicles specific "relics" would be the way to go.

I think FW dropped the ball a bit with the legacies, a proper set of walker legacies would have been really cool

[ShadowcatX]

Wraithknights do not "have a pilot", wraithknights are psychic and spirit infused flesh and wraithbone. They grow and heal. They have a person inside, yes, but that person, and their twin, are the wraithknight, they are not pilots.

Riptides on the other hand are hunks of metal with a pilot inside.

[Power Klawz]

Wraithknights do not "have a pilot", wraithknights are psychic and spirit infused flesh and wraithbone. They grow and heal. They have a person inside, yes, but that person, and their twin, are the wraithknight, they are not pilots.

Riptides on the other hand are hunks of metal with a pilot inside.

Bah its a space elf pilot with his dead brother saved to his ipod.