A change to Space Marine Dreadnoughts

[Power Klawz]

I kind of feel the opposite about the whole monstrous creature thing. When the riptide was announced as a monstrous creature it never sat right with me. Even the Wraith Knight makes little sense to me, its got a pilot and its a machine, its not a creature of any sort no matter how many spirit stones you cram into it. I would have much rather had all the "monstrous machines" left as walkers with individual special rules to characterize them appropriately.

All that being said the only thing that needs to happen for dreads is more survivability. 5++ would probably do it, with the option to purchase better invulns. Venerables should get another hull point for a total of 4.

CSM dreads need a 5++ baseline and the options to take "marklike things." Nurgle should give them shrouded, Tzeentch should give 4++, khorne should give rampage and Slaanesh should give IWND to make up for vehicles not getting fnp.

also, non khorne marked csm dreads should have the option of taking psycher levels because that would be awesome.

I think ork dreads are fine as is, possibly with the exception of giving them the standalone option to take a KFF without needing a Morkanaut or big mek chaperon. Possible points reduction might be in order too.

also making the unit size 1-3 for all of the aforementioned 'naughts would help immensely as well. It's impossible to run my (admittedly hilariously useless) dread mob composed of 2 deff dreads, 6 killa kanz and a morkanaut within a single FOC, which makes me quite sad.

[daboarder]

I like those ideas claw.

I'm also of the opinion that dreads need to get their "relic" status back. Instead of just plasma cannons and heavy bolters they should have up gunned variants and rare tech, give them conversion beamers, hades autocannons, ectoplasm, bale flamers, melta cannon things etc.....they are hearoes of the chapter and should be as such again. maybe giving them access to vehicles specific "relics" would be the way to go.

I think FW dropped the ball a bit with the legacies, a proper set of walker legacies would have been really cool

[ShadowcatX]

Wraithknights do not "have a pilot", wraithknights are psychic and spirit infused flesh and wraithbone. They grow and heal. They have a person inside, yes, but that person, and their twin, are the wraithknight, they are not pilots.

Riptides on the other hand are hunks of metal with a pilot inside.

[Power Klawz]

Wraithknights do not "have a pilot", wraithknights are psychic and spirit infused flesh and wraithbone. They grow and heal. They have a person inside, yes, but that person, and their twin, are the wraithknight, they are not pilots.

Riptides on the other hand are hunks of metal with a pilot inside.

Bah its a space elf pilot with his dead brother saved to his ipod.

[DarkLink]

Honestly, the vehicle rules are so clunky I don't see why they don't just make all vehicles MC's.

[daboarder]

because having differences between MC and vehicles is good for game balance, it means that weapons that are good against MC's don't have to necessarily be good against tanks....I mean its not implemented well, but the distinction itself is a good philosophy that builds on the old cavalry, infantry, archer mechanics of most strategy games

[ShadowcatX]

Bah its a space elf pilot with his dead brother saved to his ipod.

And here we have Apple's next invention.

But my point was there is no seperating the elf from the wraith knight, they are one and the same. Ditto the spirit. That's why wraithes as monstrous creatures make sense.

[SnakeChisler]

I've been playing 2 quite a bit since 7th came in

Admittedly there spun off into a Iron Hands Clan Rauken CAD but you know if your going to do mech you may as well do it properly

With a TL Las and Heavy Flamer to dissuade back filed incursions there a decent firing platform add boosted cover save from a Forgemaster & It will not Die on a 4+ and with 3 HP they need taking out in 1 round of shooting otherwise they just get repaired back up to full health

[Dave Mcturk]

like that over 80% of responders are happy to 'tinker' with rules.

tweaking hull points / armour values / saves is certainly easier than re-writing the whole vehicle / mc mechanic though - and easier to 'change' back to when not using house rules in competitions.

[Castellan Creed]

I think an additional hull point would work best to represent the hardy nature of a dread. Upping the armour to 13 is not a bad idea but then what advantage does an ironclad dread have then? Move through cover and ironclad assault launchers are handy to have, there's no doubt about that, but there's nothing on the profile to mark them out as a dedicated assault dread then.

Its already AV13 on the front and sides so it can shrug of most of the mid-strength shots (S6-7) and krak grenades and even the majority of powerfist/thunder hammer attacks, so maybe the regular dread goes to AV13 but stays at 3HP to represent a more robust profile and the ironclad goes up to 4HP to represent the additional heavy armour for a siege dread. Or go for the AV13 and 3 HP for the regular dreads and AV14 front, AV13 sides and 3HP for the ironclad?