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  1. #1

    Default I think we are doing it wrong...

    My LGS has always been a 40k dominated scene, always games being played, planned, and discussed but everyone who goes to the open play nights regularly also has a WarmaHords army. The game is fun, the rules are smooth and we always look forward to a match when someone brings it up. We take the time to build fun and competitive lists, set up detailed terrain and roll for the mission. We lay out our armies for our strategies in mind and and get excited for the match to begin. and that's when things fall apart.
    In years of playing this game I can only think of one match that did not end in Caster assassination. Everyone in my LGS will ignore mission objectives, boost charge past the free hits and powermit pull their opponent's caster into charge range of the rest of their force. Yesterday I played a 25pt game that ended with only two units being activated and nothing but Kercheve the Terrible being touched as he was boatmurdered and the game being over without any other model being engaged.
    We develop strategies from keeping our casters only close enough to keep the jacks active, to wrapping them in units to protect them from attack but nothing will keep them safe from the blood thirsty howls of an entire army doing everything it can to kill one single model. It has ruined WarmaHordes in my shop, a game that I really enjoy has pretty much vanished because nobody wants to play "kill the caster".
    Are we missing a rule, a strategy, or just plain missing the spirit of the game? Privateer Press has such a huge following elsewhere and people seem to have so much fun playing, but this one single rule has single handily killed it for my community.

    any help with this issue I'm open to

  2. #2

    Default

    So smaller point games will make that happen. Karchev is terrifying at 25 or smaller he is an extra jack afterall.. 35-50 is where caster kill happens but so does objective control. You have more units, and jacks or beasts for that to not happen. Experience is what makes avoiding caster kills avoidable or learn how. The best way is using two list formats. So have two lists prepared compare then decide on one. Pretty much every list can be countered.
    Last edited by Poseidon; 11-24-2014 at 03:30 PM.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolidGopher View Post
    everyone who goes to the open play nights regularly also has a WarmaHords army.

    In years of playing this game I can only think of one match that did not end in Caster assassination. Everyone in my LGS will ignore mission objectives, boost charge past the free hits and powermit pull their opponent's caster into charge range of the rest of their force.

    We develop strategies from keeping our casters only close enough to keep the jacks active, to wrapping them in units to protect them from attack but nothing will keep them safe from the blood thirsty howls of an entire army doing everything it can to kill one single model. It has ruined WarmaHordes in my shop, a game that I really enjoy has pretty much vanished because nobody wants to play "kill the caster".

    Are we missing a rule, a strategy, or just plain missing the spirit of the game? Privateer Press has such a huge following elsewhere and people seem to have so much fun playing, but this one single rule has single handily killed it for my community.
    You could change the way the game is scored, such that Caster Kill is only a Marginal Victory, whereas fulfilling Objectives become a Major Victory. Or, you can give the Killed side a final turn for One Last Gasp for a chance to Draw (tho it'll be hard without a Caster on the board).

    But the fact remains that Caster Kill is a key part of that game, and the game was largely designed around that concept. One good thing is that it keeps the players focused, and the game moving along...
    - 40k Eldar, Imperial Guard & Chaos Marines ∙ WFB Dogs of War ∙ WM/H Cryx ∙ BFG Chaos & Imperial Navy -

  4. #4

    Default

    It really depends on the type of games you have setup. As previous folks have stated, low point games will always end in caster kills. Nothing says you cannot run events with local rules and objectives. Steamroller Tournaments often use serious objective based scenarios and clocks. Crafty players aren't easy to caster kill and then it comes down to objectives. These games tend to be higher points, about 50 or so.

    In some games we used to play we didn't have the game end with caster kill. If you had units that didn't need a Warlock or a Warcaster to run them, they could fight on. It created a rather interesting pattern in people wanting a certain number of units and solos to offset losing the head of the snake. You probably don't have to get this creative. Larger point games with objective based scenarios which can result in a quick loss if you ignore them will do the trick. Also, not getting caster killed comes with time.

  5. #5

    Default

    Kill the king mechanics is one reason I do not like warmachine and why I currently don't play it.

  6. #6

    Default

    It really is a matter of preference. While it's true that some players do not like the whole "kill the king" thing, having avenues to win the game by casterkill or objective win is the reason why I am so passionate about WMH compared to other game systems I am involved with. Don't let the current lack of WMH gaming demoralize you. Just keep playing, and keep enjoying your games. Caitsidhe is correct, escalation into the global standard if 50PC would be best. Try going for control points on your next few games, too. Lead by example ^_^
    Temet nosce
    http://www.pinoywargamer.com

  7. #7
    Librarian
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    Default

    My local meta used to be largely about 'caster assassination, but it has shifted with the newer sets of tournament rules. Those are now used, and the scenarios are far more prominent paths to victory (especially at the 50 point level).

    At this point, games are largely won through scenario, with 'caster kill on the side.

    Personally, I still prefer a 'caster kill force, and that's what I normally play, but I am now the oddball.

    www.GardenNinja.com

  8. #8

    Default

    Maybe set up some form of Victory Point value system when you play. Depending on the scenario, you could have the objectives gives 2 points instead of one and you could designate some units or solos or even all of them as things that give one point when destroyed. Casters' can give 2 points when destroyed but if they are destroyed prematurely, the game ends in a tie. Point limit can be 10 pts instead of 5. I have thought of some ways to play this game with more tact than go forth and destroy the leader in case my group of players starts to feel like this.

    I really love this game and its scenarios make for some interesting situations that you don't foresee sometimes, forcing you to change your initial plans. Caster killing is a huge part of the game and is the way this game ends 99% of the time, that's not going to change but you can set up ways to make it not so much about that at your LGS.

  9. #9
    Librarian
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    The 99% of the time 'caster kill has changed. Really, check out the tournament scenarios and start playing them- you'll be surprised at just how good they are at determining victory. If you still have trouble altering your local meta, try using some of the sturdiest warlocks or warcasters (like epic Madrak- he's really hard to kill and you're probably best beating him on scenario).

    You don't need to have victory points for units and solos killed (often, it is good strategy to consider some units expendable). Instead, score the points for the reasons in the conditions related to the objective markers- like ending your turn with units or models near the objectives, or damaging the objective markers.

    I honestly think that any game becomes more tactical when it isn't about destroying all of the enemies that you see and is about some other objective (even 'caster kill). That way, the game can be in the balance all the way up to the end (rather than one force getting a large advantage early on, and playing it through well past the point where the game's outcome has been decided).

    www.GardenNinja.com

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