Why I think 7th is the best yet; and what it gives (a positive view of 7th ed 40k)

[John Bower]

I hear a lot of people hating on parts of 7th ed for this reason and that reason; so without further ado, I'd like to say why I think it's a very good improvement over older editions:

1/ open toolbox - take a moment if you will to think about many of the things people crave in the 40k universe - the stories of heroism and the 'ordinary dude' being a hero. We can do this now, people wanted Necromunda back and frankly with the 'you don't have to have points' army lists that is so doable. Sure, like Cities of Death it's lost it's character but we can have it, with a lot less paperwork too.

2/ Psychic phase - this was something I was dubious about, very much so when I heard about it. But once I'd played I realised that actually, having it all done in one place at one time was awesome, it took away a lot of trying to remember when to cast this or that; or arguments by some WAAC players over whether my psyker could even cast a power.

3/ Unbound - a lot of people really hate on this; but nobody that I play with has a problem with me going unbound, they know I'm not a jerk power gamer or WAAC (trust me I can lose with either style of list), it's a tool, you just need to agree (like it says in the Rules) what you can and can't have or do. Unbound is a huge boon for Tyranids in particular (fluff R us) but so many armies benefit from it.

4/ Maelstrom of War missions - We do now have more missions than ever (and it saddens me that people still seem to favour playing the same boring old missions time and again), we have Planetstrike, Cities of Death; an entire book of missions (Altar of War), numerous Apocalypse supplements; we don't need to play the same mission twice in the same year. I count over a hundred missions all told; including the new Cities ones and Apocalypse. Over 100, think on that, how many people even play 100 missions a year?

5/ And last but not least, pretty much all our codexes are coming up to 7th ed standard; the only OP dexes really were written for 6th ed. From what I've seen of things all the latest ones are pretty even in power. they all got nerfs and a couple of units buffed. The Tyranids got a lot of love just lately and as a nid player I am happy for them.

So that's my take, my views on 7th and why I think it's so far the best yet. You may not agree; that's fine, I just wanted to show how it can be; how excited I personally am that I can create the storylines I want to do.

Now we can have gangs of civilians in our armies, yep, dust off those old Necromunda gangs people; they have a new use. Dust off the buildings and ruins too, as CoD is still pretty awesome (I played it the first day I got it with my mate and we had one of our best and most enjoyable games ever (I still lost)). If anyone thinks of anything I haven't, post it; and let's please post the positives here; we always hear the bad bits, let's hear the good stuff from folk that like me have found something in 7th really gets the creative juices flowing.

[DarkLink]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a player accidentally skip the psychic phase, and there are still plenty of players who will pull the "nope, you've started shooting, no psychic powers for you". I've forgotten far more powers with the new psychic phase than I ever did in previous edition, personally. Really, it just made sense that you cast psychic shooting powers in the shooting phase and assault powers in the assault phase. It makes you think "ok, I'm going to punch someone in the face, I should activate my force weapons". Now, you have to remember to do that completely independent of whether or not you're actually locked in combat.

Leadership checks for psychic powers were too reliable, though. Less reliable psychic powers has been a good thing for the game.

[daboarder]

Leadership checks for psychic powers were too reliable, though. Less reliable psychic powers has been a good thing for the game.

Just a shame that GW could only be assed to fix the imperial defences though, Shadow in the Warp became obsolete like 3 weeks after it dropped

[drathbun502]

I'm with you. As a a player who left the game generally other than family fun after 3rd edition, and started in the RT days of old, this one brought me back in. Trust me, Wave Serpents used to suck even harder. There are always imbalances here and there, but this version to me captures the best of the RT days while still having a remote sense of balance. There never was, and has never been, a perfect balance between armies. The newest version though seems to have the most diversity like it did in the old days. While my Squats are still on the shelf, I'm having FUN rampaging around with Orks again in a way I haven't in a long time. With creativity, unbound leads itself to some fun stuff. My favorite opponent has an unbound IG paratrooper elite and Ogryn force that is a beast. I wouldn't have seen that otherwise. Overall, I see this edition as a huge win. We used to always play huge ridiculous games in the past, and the new rules actually bring those elements into some sense of coherency. I know a lot of people crap on different elements, but it's never been perfect, you do have to not be a douche, but this version of the game for me surprisingly has become the most fun one yet.

[SnakeChisler]

I think it rejuvenates the game on a number of levels

Allies Matrix in 6th sucked big style - the biggest reason people left competitive gaming in droves

Where not going to get back to the wealth of competitions that used to happen but the sandbox approach has lead to a lot more variety and most shops are running maelstrom tournaments with escalating points. Clearly designed to get purchasing going but everyone who plays these style of games as new players seem to love it.

Missions - the Death star really struggles with progressive objectives

Super heavies - you've a place & org chart to put them in if you want

Everything score but somethings score more than others - wehay some sense in the system at last

Psychic phase - some stuff was just OP and as for shadows of the warp its very very powerful -3 on leadership tests when you know you have to throw a bucket of dice to get stuff off is scary your going to wound yourself more times than not

Unbound - not interested but its there if anyone wants it would I play against it, no on a pickup game, we may organize a campaign style thing where it could come in but we could have done that anyway it just formalizes some parameters.

Downsides
Competitive play is still too OP for your average punter and aside from club comps which run restricted rules set then its going to get even more niche till a format becomes popular.

[daboarder]

[QUOTE=SnakeChisler;465089]
Psychic phase - some stuff was just OP and as for shadows of the warp its very very powerful -3 on leadership tests when you know you have to throw a bucket of dice to get stuff off is scary your going to wound yourself more times than not/QUOTE]

Statistically in most cases you actually wont, because even when you perils your Ld10 (and most are, dont BS) will still have a better than 50% chance of passing that Ld check to not suffer the perils

[Dave Mcturk]

Leadership checks for psychic powers were too reliable, though. Less reliable psychic powers has been a good thing for the game.

'fixed' psychic powers would be over-powering in 7th; the randomness between first of all 'getting the right powers' and then actually being able to use them makes running a 'psycher based' army very risky. - the trouble still is if everything falls right they can still be awesome.

the only MAJOR flaw ive found in the whole new system is that harlequins cannot safely get their shadowseer to cast at all !
[NB: harlequins have been 'dropped' from the new DE codex]
i really think quins deserve a sensible FAQ to make them a workable unit

[John Bower]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a player accidentally skip the psychic phase, and there are still plenty of players who will pull the "nope, you've started shooting, no psychic powers for you". I've forgotten far more powers with the new psychic phase than I ever did in previous edition, personally. Really, it just made sense that you cast psychic shooting powers in the shooting phase and assault powers in the assault phase. It makes you think "ok, I'm going to punch someone in the face, I should activate my force weapons". Now, you have to remember to do that completely independent of whether or not you're actually locked in combat.

Leadership checks for psychic powers were too reliable, though. Less reliable psychic powers has been a good thing for the game.

I guess I'm just lucky with my opponents then; we always seem to have a gentleman's agreement to either nudge each other or, should we forget; we can go back as long as it's not silly amounts after. I've forgotten lots in games; nothing to do with how it's laid out but I've forgotten to charge units I meant to charge, give orders I meant to give and so on, heck even forgotten to shoot guns from buildings that are 'auto fire'. So you can't really blame forgetting the psychic powers on the new phase; anymore than I could blame forgetting them on there not being one, it's just something that happens in the heat of battle I guess. And I suppose in truth you could argue that real commanders suffer the same issues so it's again whether you agree that to use a similarity 'if you take your finger off the piece you've moved it' like in chess.

like I say, I really can't understand the hatred towards 'unbound lists'. I've played them, I've played against them, a list isn't OP per se, it's the player that matters; and in that he or she should be letting you see their list before the game; so you can make any reservations clear.

I still have reservations over Lords of War in the game; I do think they are OP quite often; but how can you ban them when some commanders are being shoved into that slot (I'm looking at my poor Orks here and the Pups).

I think that was a dirty move on GW's part to 'force' Super Heavies in against reservations. How can you turn up with Gazghull for example then turn round and say your opponent can't use his Baneblade; yet in power levels there's no remote similarity.

But I digress; those are weak points and we are in this thread trying to see the positives of 7th. And there are a lot.

[Caitsidhe]

I don't see the problem with Unbound lists either because there is no balance anywhere in the system anyway. The particulars of how standard lists are made in combination with the Formation rules mean there really isn't any downside to not doing Unbound either. You can abuse either to your heart's content. All things being equal, all the competitive types in my area eschew Unbound because they can get just as broken lists without going that route with the benefit of super objective scoring troops. The whole Unbound thing is thus... a paper tiger... BS because the whole Edition is effectively Unbound if you work it right.

I disagree with the OP and don't think this edition is remotely good. I'll leave it at that. I think that Games Workshop has adopted a Wizards of the Coast sales model while keeping Games Workshop prices and sense of "we are a luxury item" mindset. I don't like the MTG approach from a balance standpoint, i.e. you must buy everything current to keep up, nor do I much care for paying for cheap plastic casts as if they were cast in silver. It is a Lose/Lose situation.

[40kGamer]

I would say 7th is the best thematic edition we've seen in the sense that you can do whatever you want. The downside is that there is zero balance in the entire game.