Why I think 7th is the best yet; and what it gives (a positive view of 7th ed 40k)

[Defenestratus]

I don't know if 7th is the best edition or not. I can tell you, my personal motivation to play is at an all time low. I'm more psyched about painting up a single BFG ship and a farseer conversion model for my Rogue Trader RPG session that I'm flying to the east coast to play in than I am to drive down to the local GW for a game of toy soldiers. My friends and I are slowly selling off our apocalypse gear - he just ditched two warhounds and a reaver.. I'm going to probably put a phantom or two on ebay shortly - along with some of my Blood Angels since I can't seem to be able to field the army I want without going Unbound - which takes me to one of my critiques of 7th....

...They basically gave you an out as a player to be dorky cheesemonger with your army list and still be able to play it. I tried playing unbound once - and it was only just to get an extra spirit seer in an Iyanden list but the reaction was one of "Unbound? Oh... you're one of those guys, well let me go change my list a little bit." Yeah, I can run unbound, but no, its not socially accepted.

As an Eldar player, the psychic phase sucks. First, random powers are STILL terrible. You can't reliably get buffs casted and its way too easy to deny a power. last game with my eldar, with 6 warp charges on the table, I successfully cast two powers the whole game against Necrons... NECRONS!!! This isn't an isolated incident. Since I don't spam wave serpents I actually need my psykers to buff my dudes, and it just doesn't happen more often than it does - and it makes me really just want to give up. Its tough to decide whether I hate the psychic phase more, or the maelstrom missions more....

I lost a game simply because my opponent managed to draw 2 "Secure objective 4" cards on the last turn that he happened to have a tomb spider hovering over it. The randomness of the cards leaves no overall strategic goals, its like 40k for ADHD kids and its terrible IMO.

So overall, while there are some mechanics of the game in 7th that are improved over the previous version, I'm still pretty blase about it and I'm jonsin-aching to go roll some D10's in Rogue Trader.

[DarkLink]

A significant portion of the game is also extremely clunky. There are so many mechanics that require to roll this and roll that and reference this chart and then roll on this second chart and then roll the random results from that chart then take random numbers of wounds then saves then this then that then morale and after fifteen minutes of dice rolling later, you can finally move on to the second unit that gets to shoot with that same ability and you do it all over again.

[NamelessKilljoy]

I'm with you. As a a player who left the game generally other than family fun after 3rd edition, and started in the RT days of old, this one brought me back in. Trust me, Wave Serpents used to suck even harder. There are always imbalances here and there, but this version to me captures the best of the RT days while still having a remote sense of balance. There never was, and has never been, a perfect balance between armies. The newest version though seems to have the most diversity like it did in the old days. While my Squats are still on the shelf, I'm having FUN rampaging around with Orks again in a way I haven't in a long time. With creativity, unbound leads itself to some fun stuff. My favorite opponent has an unbound IG paratrooper elite and Ogryn force that is a beast. I wouldn't have seen that otherwise. Overall, I see this edition as a huge win. We used to always play huge ridiculous games in the past, and the new rules actually bring those elements into some sense of coherency. I know a lot of people crap on different elements, but it's never been perfect, you do have to not be a douche, but this version of the game for me surprisingly has become the most fun one yet.

Well what Tyranid player wouldn't love to just use 5000 hormaguants in a 1000 point game and just let them feed on everything . more than half the board would be covered in your units. (you would lose of course with the vehicle meta but still)

[Andrew Thomas]

A significant portion of the game is also extremely clunky. There are so many mechanics that require to roll this and roll that and reference this chart and then roll on this second chart and then roll the random results from that chart then take random numbers of wounds then saves then this then that then morale and after fifteen minutes of dice rolling later, you can finally move on to the second unit that gets to shoot with that same ability and you do it all over again.

You sure you aren't talking about WarmaHordes? I mean, the system maths in most of those charts are pretty intuitive once you've played enough games, and the only chart that really requires referencing is the vehicle damage chart. Most of the other charts in the game generally only come up once per game, if at all.

Also, who is it that is forcing everyone to play multiple thousands of point forces? I mean, I get that collecting is fun, and that it's fun to be able to field all of your models, but sometimes, 60-90 minutes is all people have for a game.

[DarkLink]

Yes, I'm quite certain, considering I do play Warmahordes (albeit rarely). Warmahoreds isn't a simple game, certainly, but the complexity is all about giving players tactical options. 40k tends to be random for the sake of being random.

[Andrew Thomas]

I don't know if 7th is the best edition or not. I can tell you, my personal motivation to play is at an all time low. I'm more psyched about painting up a single BFG ship and a farseer conversion model for my Rogue Trader RPG session that I'm flying to the east coast to play in than I am to drive down to the local GW for a game of toy soldiers. My friends and I are slowly selling off our apocalypse gear - he just ditched two warhounds and a reaver.. I'm going to probably put a phantom or two on ebay shortly - along with some of my Blood Angels since I can't seem to be able to field the army I want without going Unbound - which takes me to one of my critiques of 7th....

...They basically gave you an out as a player to be dorky cheesemonger with your army list and still be able to play it. I tried playing unbound once - and it was only just to get an extra spirit seer in an Iyanden list but the reaction was one of "Unbound? Oh... you're one of those guys, well let me go change my list a little bit." Yeah, I can run unbound, but no, its not socially accepted.

As an Eldar player, the psychic phase sucks. First, random powers are STILL terrible. You can't reliably get buffs casted and its way too easy to deny a power. last game with my eldar, with 6 warp charges on the table, I successfully cast two powers the whole game against Necrons... NECRONS!!! This isn't an isolated incident. Since I don't spam wave serpents I actually need my psykers to buff my dudes, and it just doesn't happen more often than it does - and it makes me really just want to give up. Its tough to decide whether I hate the psychic phase more, or the maelstrom missions more....

I lost a game simply because my opponent managed to draw 2 "Secure objective 4" cards on the last turn that he happened to have a tomb spider hovering over it. The randomness of the cards leaves no overall strategic goals, its like 40k for ADHD kids and its terrible IMO.

So overall, while there are some mechanics of the game in 7th that are improved over the previous version, I'm still pretty blase about it and I'm jonsin-aching to go roll some D10's in Rogue Trader.

This sounds like a lot of smoke, but very little fire.

Just how big/spammy is your list if you need to run more than 10 Spirit Seers, anyway? Also, if I may ask, what kind of powers were you using in the match against the necrons, and just how good were their rolls compared to yours? All I get from these anecdotes is that you had a run of bad luck, or that you were overextending with your army.

[Path Walker]

If you want a fun game to play with a group of friends, 7th edition is the best 40K has been in years.

Thats the game GW are aiming to make and thats the game they've made. If you wanted 40k to be anything else, thats on you.

[daboarder]

If you want a fun game to play with a group of friends, 7th edition is the best 40K has been in years.

Thats the game GW are aiming to make and thats the game they've made. If you wanted 40k to be anything else, thats on you.

You heard it here first folks, unequivocal word of god!

to be honest though there is plenty flawed with that statement.

Firstly, the removal of major theme options from lists that has occurred since 7th dropped hurts us fluff players more than it hurts the tournaments, it was vary rare that any of the X,Y,Z becomes troops etc army lists was widely considered competitive top tier so by removing them your only punishing those that run them for fun.

Secondly, a tight and balanced rules set doesn't hurt friendly play, it helps it, because the tighter the rules set the less likely it is that losses occur due to poor list choices on the frinedly -players part.

Thridly, as is so often force fed to people, GW is in the business of selling models, by not putting the appropriate effort into their rules they LOSE all those sales that go to better written games. Meaning that yes, poor rules cost GW money

[Path Walker]

You heard it here first folks, unequivocal word of god!

to be honest though there is plenty flawed with that statement.

Firstly, the removal of major theme options from lists that has occurred since 7th dropped hurts us fluff players more than it hurts the tournaments, it was vary rare that any of the X,Y,Z becomes troops etc army lists was widely considered competitive top tier so by removing them your only punishing those that run them for fun.

Secondly, a tight and balanced rules set doesn't hurt friendly play, it helps it, because the tighter the rules set the less likely it is that losses occur due to poor list choices on the frinedly -players part.

Thridly, as is so often force fed to people, GW is in the business of selling models, by not putting the appropriate effort into their rules they LOSE all those sales that go to better written games. Meaning that yes, poor rules cost GW money

I am well past caring about anything you manage to mash out on a keyboard with that I presume are your clenched, rage filled fists.

Name ONE "major theme option" that was removed.

And you're not a fluff player, you're a dickhead who moans about percieved power levels of your armies constantly.

[Lord Tothe]

7th edition is superior to 6th. I'm not convinced that it's superior to 5th, although I do like some of the changes it brought. I haven't played anything before 5th ed.

The new Orks codex has a few good things, but it lost the overall Orkiness of the previous codex, and lost the ways different HQ units could alter army composition for different builds while restricting WAAAGH!!! to Warboss-led armies. Orks went from having a couple admittedly potentially-OP builds to being rather bland.