H.i.s.h.p

[Jgolden]

Hey all, after reading the current runs of "why I hate" and "Why I love" 40k rules, I thought of a slightly different way to present my case.

Most of you are familiar with How It Should Have Ended (H.I.S.H.E.), on Youtube, right? Well, what if we did a How It Should Have Printed for all our 7th edition thoughts and reports?

How is this different from anything else being put up? Well, the idea is that instead of saying "I wish this", "I hate that" or "Where the #$%$# did that rule come from" we actually compile these thoughts, tweeks and edits to bring out the full flavor of the game.

I know I know, this will never work because player A, who likes CSM, will only want changes that will help their army, but not anyone else' army. yeah, that's going to happen to some extent, but if each army is represented properly, it should stay in balance.

We also have to keep it organized or this will be over before it ends. Here is an idea on how to submit a change:

Book: (Codex, Rule Book, etc.)
Page:
Title of the change: (Rule, fluff, etc.)
Type of change: (addition/edit/removal/clarification)
Reason:
Change: (What you propose is put in, taken out, etc.)

Of all of these, I think the "Reason:" section is the most important. Some reasons need little argument to get ratified, but others NEED to have strong reasoning and no, "Cause' I want it" is not a good reason.

Once we have an edit formulated, we'll put up a poll and it will get voted on.

Again, this is just an idea that might bare fruit in an effort to really make the game fun.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[Wolfshade]

Good luck, I think that this would make number 3 attempt for someone on the board to make a ruleset.

[Jgolden]

Thanks Wolfshade,

I really really know that I'm most likely setting myself up for failure but I figure if we give up and don't try, we can't complain, as much, when rules get changed for real...

[Wolfshade]

Book: BRB
Page: [digital edition]
Title of the change: Rule
Type of change: edit
Reason: Interaction with ruins
Change: Revert template rules to 6th ed. i.e. can shoot +/- 1 level for infantry/tanks

[Charistoph]

Book: Rulebook
Page: Vehicles in the Shooting Phase > Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons (Digital Edition)
Title of the change: Rule clarification
Type of change: Edit
Reason: Clarification of interaction with other weapon systems.
Change: "Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn. Any Weapons with the Ordnance type must be fired before any other weapon type. A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can still Snap Shoot Ordnance, but of course, cannot fire any Ordnance weapon that cannot be fired as Snap Shots." {change in bold}

Book: Rulebook
Page: Shooting Phase > Choose a Target (Digital Edition)
Title of the change: Rule clarification
Type of change: Edit
Reason: Clarification of interaction with units that can fire at more than one target.
Change: Add after first paragraph: "If a unit is able to shoot more than one target, all targets must be declared before resolving each Attack."
or
"If a unit is able to shoot more than one target, select an initial target. Fire all desired weapons at the target, then choose a another target. Repeat as desired and weapons are available."

[Houghten]

Any Weapons with the Ordnance type must be fired before any other weapon type.

There might be reasons for wanting to fire the heavy bolters first. Why not: "A vehicle that fires any weapons at its full Ballistic Skill may not fire an Ordnance weapon that turn (unless the first weapon was also Ordnance, in which case any other Ordnance weapons may be fired as Snap Shots if they are capable)."

Which is, of course, already the case, it's just making it explicit that it flows both ways.

I'm not sure if I strictly need the bit in brackets. Is there any vehicle that can have two Ordnance weapons and can't just say "sod this, I'm a super-heavy"?

[DWest]

The Spartan Heavy Tank (IA 2; it's the 25-man stretch Land Raider) can take two Laser Destroyers, which are Ordinance. To make things even better, it also has Power of the Machine Spirit, so there's two rules snarls for the price of one.

[Charistoph]

There might be reasons for wanting to fire the heavy bolters first. Why not: "A vehicle that fires any weapons at its full Ballistic Skill may not fire an Ordnance weapon that turn (unless the first weapon was also Ordnance, in which case any other Ordnance weapons may be fired as Snap Shots if they are capable)."

I was going more for a one sentence fix. It could probably be added that "If the Vehicle is to fire any Ordnance Weapons, they must be resolved first before any other weapon types."

Of course, we're missing out on Primary weapons at that point, too.

Which is, of course, already the case, it's just making it explicit that it flows both ways.

Actually, it's not the case. The mechanic runs smacks in to a problem with how the system works. Right now, technically speaking, if I fire Heavy Bolters first, I can use them at full BS, but there is absolutely zero rule preventing me from firing an Ordnance at other-wise full BS after that fact. It's unsportsmanlike, but the rules for Ordnance do not consider that other weapons may be chosen to fire first.

[Gleipnir]

The Spartan Heavy Tank (IA 2; it's the 25-man stretch Land Raider) can take two Laser Destroyers, which are Ordinance. To make things even better, it also has Power of the Machine Spirit, so there's two rules snarls for the price of one.

If the unit has the Heavy type its not an issue

[Houghten]

Actually, it's not the case. The mechanic runs smacks in to a problem with how the system works. Right now, technically speaking, if I fire Heavy Bolters first, I can use them at full BS, but there is absolutely zero rule preventing me from firing an Ordnance at other-wise full BS after that fact. It's unsportsmanlike, but the rules for Ordnance do not consider that other weapons may be chosen to fire first.

Yes, they do.

If you fire an Ordnance weapon, your other weapons may only fire Snap Shots. We're agreed on that part, right?

Therefore, if, in a turn in which you fire an Ordnance weapon, you have fired another weapon except as Snap Shots, you have made an illegal move. There's no sneaking around that; it's not unsportsmanlike, it's cheating.