H.i.s.h.p

[DWest]

If the unit has the Heavy type its not an issue

Heavy doesn't change the Ordinance rule though, as Leman Russ owners have found to their dismay. So the Spartan can fire one Laser Destroyer at full BS, and then it has to fire the other as a Snap Shot, unless PotMS overrides that and lets the 2nd fire at full BS.

[Gleipnir]

Actually players have been misinterpreting that rule since 6th edition is the issue, Forgeworld has already said as much, Ordinance rules for snap shots while moving do not apply to Heavy vehicles, and the rules as they are spelled out indicate this, but players choose to ignore context of rules and subheadings to make the argument that the rule applies in every instance. Take a good hard look at the rule in your rule book, read where it is, what rule heading it is listed under and what subheading it is listed under and ask yourself why they wrote it that way instead of placing it under the description for Ordinance weapons in the weapon entries, or under a more general heading instead as the subset of rules of another subset of rules.

[Jgolden]

I'm seeing both sides of what you two are saying. What if we tweaked what Charistoph initially said as such.

"Any Weapons with the Ordnance type must be DECLARED before any other weapon type is fired"

How this would work Fluff-wise is that all the efforts to target and fire the Ordinance weapon take away resources to fire any the vehicle's other weapons.

What do you all think?

[John Bower]

Actually players have been misinterpreting that rule since 6th edition is the issue, Forgeworld has already said as much, Ordinance rules for snap shots while moving do not apply to Heavy vehicles, and the rules as they are spelled out indicate this, but players choose to ignore context of rules and subheadings to make the argument that the rule applies in every instance. Take a good hard look at the rule in your rule book, read where it is, what rule heading it is listed under and what subheading it is listed under and ask yourself why they wrote it that way instead of placing it under the description for Ordinance weapons in the weapon entries, or under a more general heading instead as the subset of rules of another subset of rules.

Trouble is it is a problem and hasn't been FAQ'd, but it is under the separate heading of 'Vehicles and Ordnance weapons', not under 'movement and Ordnance Weapons' in its own right. Had it been directly sub headed that way I'd agree with you, but it isn't; it is a blanket and just poorly placed (nothing unusual there).

[Gleipnir]

Trouble is it is a problem and hasn't been FAQ'd, but it is under the separate heading of 'Vehicles and Ordnance weapons', not under 'movement and Ordnance Weapons' in its own right. Had it been directly sub headed that way I'd agree with you, but it isn't; it is a blanket and just poorly placed (nothing unusual there).

Look again it is in fact a subheading of Moving and Shooting, the Large type bold font(rules section), small bold type font(more specific rules section falling within the above section) italics type font(rules subheading falling under the aforementioned small bold rules subsection) are the indicators of this. You have only to read thru 10 or so pages of rules to notice that pattern.

Could it have been made clearer for people so it would not be taken out of context and played wrong? Hell yes but the reason it has not been FAQ'd is GW is just stubborn enough to feel they wrote it clear enough the first time and can't be bothered to FAQ let alone playtest and edit their own ruleset.

[DWest]

The problem is, they reverted the FAQ entirely with 7th, and changed the wording of the Ordinance rule so that the way the FAQ fixed it no longer works.

[Charistoph]

Yes, they do.

If you fire an Ordnance weapon, your other weapons may only fire Snap Shots. We're agreed on that part, right?

Therefore, if, in a turn in which you fire an Ordnance weapon, you have fired another weapon except as Snap Shots, you have made an illegal move. There's no sneaking around that; it's not unsportsmanlike, it's cheating.

So, then why not make it simple and clear instead of creating a situation of someone having to "go back in time" or making Ordnance not work with other's full BS shots?

This entry I put in here is BECAUSE it is poorly setup and worded, making it terribly clunky and could be the cause of arguments.

If you have a problem with that, then maybe you are in the wrong thread.

[Houghten]

What I have a problem with is that your solution doesn't clarify, it adds a new restriction.

[Charistoph]

What I have a problem with is that your solution doesn't clarify, it adds a new restriction.

Not really. It clarifies it by requiring to be fired first (if at all) so that way there wouldn't be any need for an argument or discussion since it is black and white. If you look at it, it really is the same thing as how you believe it should be run. I am just asking that it be put in order so that there is zero question about it, is all.

And yes, there are those out there who would try to twist it out to fire their Leman Russ's Heavy Bolters first at full BS and then fire their Battle Cannon full force.

I'm not saying that either of use would do it, I'm just laying it down in black and white for those who would.

[Houghten]

And yet, there are still tactical reasons to want to fire your Snap Shotting weapons first. For example, if you're firing at a Crusader Squad where the Scouts are in front.