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  1. #1
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    Default Getting Grey Knight Terminators to work (and not die before they do anything)

    Hello All

    I jumped on a deal on a nemesis strike force box before the holidays and have since been throwing in a nemesis strike force formation into my Blood Angels (who have largely lost their appeal to me in the new codex).

    I love the GK terminator models. They're really super awesome, and I've been running them in a 5 man squad, 3 'berds, 2 falchions, 1 incinerator with a libbyhammer attached. I like how they can deepstrike in first turn, but the problem I've been having is that despite how many red herrings I throw at the enemy to have them ignore my GK's, they dump moderate amounts of firepower into the squad and neuter it mostly before they can do anything really useful. Even a bolter volley punks enough models to make the squad anemic in any kind of combat - even with psychic buffing.

    I'm seeing suggestions to run them in a stormraven in order to preserve them up until they make their assault. I have two issues with that...

    1) I have a visceral reaction to putting psykers in transports where they're totally marginalized and
    2) By putting them in a SR, you're totally taking away the turn 1 deepstrike ability.

    So the question is, what am I doing wrong? Why can I not keep my GKT's alive for a single round of shooting in order for them to make it into combat? Is this just an issue with this unit that has to just be accepted?
    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. --Voltaire

  2. #2
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    Welcome to playing Grey Knights ...

    Paladins. Paladins are the answer. With Draigo to soak up ID wounds. Unfortunately, they are neither troops nor HQ, and Strike Squads are significantly worse than Terminators. I've been running Draigo, Paladins, multiple Dreadknights, and one unit of Terminators, and the Terminators are usually low on the priority list. Grey Knights in general have issues, though. Zero anti flyer, can't kill MCs effectively at range without dedicating an absurd amount of firepower to doing so, low model count, etc. I will say, ditch the incinerator and get a psycannon. Only take anything other than psycannons on Dreadknights.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    Welcome to playing Grey Knights ...

    Paladins. Paladins are the answer. With Draigo to soak up ID wounds. Unfortunately, they are neither troops nor HQ, and Strike Squads are significantly worse than Terminators. I've been running Draigo, Paladins, multiple Dreadknights, and one unit of Terminators, and the Terminators are usually low on the priority list. Grey Knights in general have issues, though. Zero anti flyer, can't kill MCs effectively at range without dedicating an absurd amount of firepower to doing so, low model count, etc. I will say, ditch the incinerator and get a psycannon. Only take anything other than psycannons on Dreadknights.
    Would love to run Paladins, but I'm using this as an allied detachment and its coming out to be a pretty large chunk of my overall army already. I'm hoping to keep it on the cheap.

    I hear ya about the psycannon, I just wanted to use the first turn deepstrike to toast some mofos with the flamer... plus its glued on the dude's arm and I'm not going to start pulling the model apart.

    So what you're saying is that GK's just have problems staying alive? Thats unfortunate. I'm thinking of throwing in a sang priest into the squad to try and make it a bit more resilient but I loathe and despise people who toss in unfluffy characters into allied squads, like the baron into the mounted council squad.
    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. --Voltaire

  4. #4
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    maybe a change of approach is in order? Don't have them DS in first turn when the enemy doesn't have that much else to worry about, but hope for them turn two when all your other melee stuff is poised to strike as well? that will make target priority much harder...
    The bigger they are, the bigger the mess they make when they step on you. - Ahzek Ahriman, on Titans

  5. #5
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    Yeah, GW has never been able to figure out that expensive elite units suffer from diminishing returns. GK Terminators might be cheaper than normal ones, but after upgrades not so much and still not cheap enough. There are lengthy essays worth of subtle balance issues with GKs. They also don't always make good allies because for the most part, once you spend enough points to get a worthwhile GK force, you don't have points left for your other army.

    Dreadknights will not likely disappoint, though. They're not OP as they're fairly easy to kill, but they're fast and have a lot of firepower. They're a very balanced, fun unit.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    Yeah, GW has never been able to figure out that expensive elite units suffer from diminishing returns. GK Terminators might be cheaper than normal ones, but after upgrades not so much and still not cheap enough. There are lengthy essays worth of subtle balance issues with GKs. They also don't always make good allies because for the most part, once you spend enough points to get a worthwhile GK force, you don't have points left for your other army.

    Dreadknights will not likely disappoint, though. They're not OP as they're fairly easy to kill, but they're fast and have a lot of firepower. They're a very balanced, fun unit.
    The DK is down on the list of units to build (want to make some interceptors first) but it presents a unique opportunity to create another threat vector that has to be dealt with... the shunt move from the interceptors is a nice little toy that I'll definitely have fun with that could be used in a similar way.

    maybe a change of approach is in order? Don't have them DS in first turn when the enemy doesn't have that much else to worry about, but hope for them turn two when all your other melee stuff is poised to strike as well? that will make target priority much harder...
    I suppose I could try that... giving up one of the benefits of the NSF formation though
    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. --Voltaire

  7. #7
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    The deepstrike is fun, just maybe pair it with lots of Drop Pods. Whenever you have stuff coming in in your opponent's face, you need to present a lot of threats. And even if they ignore thirty Blood Angels dropping in their face and focus on killing the Grey Knights, that's not a terrible trade off.

    The Dreadknight does extremely well in games like that. It's dangerous, but it's mobile enough that you can place it where it's inconvenient for your opponent to deal with it. Often, they tend to put off killing it if you play just right, and you'll get several turns of shooting and then make it to assault. Played correctly, it easily makes its points back.

    Also, if you don't like the Dreadknight baby carrier, it's easy to swap out the torso for a Dreadnought torso or do a similar conversion, and it looks pretty awesome. I also prefer to ditch the shoulder pistons.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  8. #8
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    Paladins are horrible, don't use them! GKT are a better buy. Also, the Psycannon is made for GK TDA, while the Incinerator is more of a PAGK thing. You are better served with GKT toting Psycannon than Pallies with a flamethrower.

    SJ

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffersonian000 View Post
    Paladins are horrible, don't use them! GKT are a better buy. Also, the Psycannon is made for GK TDA, while the Incinerator is more of a PAGK thing. You are better served with GKT toting Psycannon than Pallies with a flamethrower.

    SJ
    I'll head down to the GDub today to pick up another box of GKT to make a psycannon and a brotherhood captain/grand master I suppose.

    The deepstrike is fun, just maybe pair it with lots of Drop Pods.
    Thats what I was thinking, drop a bunch of furioso's in turn one and then maybe some of that AP1,2 shenanigans will shoot at them instead of the GKT's...
    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. --Voltaire

  10. #10
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    Magnets are your friends. Magnetize all weapon options (within reason). The day you start playing GK will have you fielding Psycannons and Hammers, but tomorrow may find you needing Falchions and Psilencers due to an FAQ, dataslate, or new release. Or maybe Swords will get a buff, or Halberds work better for your meta, etc.. Being able to swap out without buying more is a godsend in today's 40k.

    SJ

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