Sicaran Battle Tank...the most d-bag unit ever?

[Defenestratus]

I'm really over the whining about the Wave Serpent. The line "You can't complain about another unit because you play Eldar" is the most moronic logic I think that I've been exposed to.

Furthermore the projection about how he's using hornets with pulse lasers was especially confusing... "80 pts for 4 S8 AP2 shots per turn". I don't recall the OP saying how he outfitted his hornets. For all we know he was putting shuricannons on them (its whats on mine).

Eldar shouldn't be complaining and there are no such things as d-bag units - only d-bags who use them because of their profile to point value ratio...

How about d-bags who think that others' opinion isn't worth listening to just because he plays a certain army? Just because he plays Eldar doesn't mean that he spams 5 wave serpents a game. It doesn't mean that he ever ran a mounted council with the Baron in it. It doesn't mean that he's a powergaming d*ck whose out to ruin your good time.

I'm sick of the wave serpent hate. Its a transport/tank that is good. Its ONLY problem is that its spammable. I've had my wave serpents blown up so many times by IG heavy weapons squads, Hydras, Noise Marines, Tau markerlit missile shenanigans, thunderhammers to the hull... Its just silly that there's so much complaining over one silly tank. For the life of me I don't see why more people aren't piping up about the new Necron codex.. the crap you can apparently pull with Zandrekh and allies of convenience is going to be a real "fun" one.

The existence of that one silly tank doesn't relegate us Eldar players opinions below any other army's players. If you have a problem with his actual complaint then fine - but your problem shouldn't be "he plays Eldar".

[Dave Mcturk]

I'm really over the whining about the Wave Serpent. The line "You can't complain about another unit because you play Eldar" is the most moronic logic I think that I've been exposed to.

Furthermore the projection about how he's using hornets with pulse lasers was especially confusing... "80 pts for 4 S8 AP2 shots per turn". I don't recall the OP saying how he outfitted his hornets. For all we know he was putting shuricannons on them (its whats on mine).



How about d-bags who think that others' opinion isn't worth listening to just because he plays a certain army? Just because he plays Eldar doesn't mean that he spams 5 wave serpents a game. It doesn't mean that he ever ran a mounted council with the Baron in it. It doesn't mean that he's a powergaming d*ck whose out to ruin your good time.

I'm sick of the wave serpent hate. Its a transport/tank that is good. Its ONLY problem is that its spammable. I've had my wave serpents blown up so many times by IG heavy weapons squads, Hydras, Noise Marines, Tau markerlit missile shenanigans, thunderhammers to the hull... Its just silly that there's so much complaining over one silly tank. For the life of me I don't see why more people aren't piping up about the new Necron codex.. the crap you can apparently pull with Zandrekh and allies of convenience is going to be a real "fun" one.

The existence of that one silly tank doesn't relegate us Eldar players opinions below any other army's players. If you have a problem with his actual complaint then fine - but your problem shouldn't be "he plays Eldar".

glad someones standing up for vyper ! never played against super-heavies or similar - but i play eldar mostly and have happily house ruled the wavz to a one use only of the dreaded serpent shield - its still a good vehicle but it seems to balance out reasonably fairly.

personally i would have thought that any a13 tank - even with super-duper ignore melta armour [like serpents used to have] - is still toast if caught by a mob of haywire grenades or some wraith-guns ?

[marful]

gpersonally i would have thought that any a13 tank - even with super-duper ignore melta armour [like serpents used to have] - is still toast if caught by a mob of haywire grenades or some wraith-guns ?

The part in bold is why I feel the complaint about the sicaran whining. Particularly if that player is also taking hornets...


The long of the short is that the Sicaran is a moderately armored vehicle with 3hp capable of being brought down by a SINGLE wave serpent's shooting.

Against the front armor (AV 13), a single Wave Serpent is going to average 1 hull point, against the front!.

Against the side (AV 12), a single Wave Serpent is going to average 3 hull points.


Add in the fact that you can only take a single relic of the armory and that a Sicaran costs more than a Wave Serpent (which doesn't take up a force org slot, has objective secured and is a troop transport)?

[DarkLink]

As for the eternal "Wave Serpent is so OP" moaning, we don´t have five options like the Marines (Stormraven, Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod, and a Land Raider), we have two, and one i haven´t seen in a batrep since the 5th edition (Falcon). I would LOVE to use something else to carry the troops, but unless you ally with the Dark Kin, there´s no solution to this. And this is the last post from me on this. Remember, that it was a question, is it the MOST d-bag, and majority (non Eldar/Dark Eldar players of course ) thinks it´s not. Still, not many other choices offered here...

Oh, boo-hoo, you only have two transports and one of them is one of the single best models in the game*. I'm figuratively weeping for your misfortune.


*Especially since the only thing on your list of SM transports that's better than just mediocre is the Drop Pod.

[DWest]

Add in the fact that you can only take a single relic of the armory

You can take multiple Relics of the Armoury, if you take an HQ unit that has been designated "Master of the Reliquary" in IA 2- for Codex Marines, this is the Master of the Forge. That would permit 3 Sicarans, but you can still only give 1 per 1000 points the Legacies of Glory, and you can't take 2 of the same Legacy no matter what.

[marful]

You can take multiple Relics of the Armoury, if you take an HQ unit that has been designated "Master of the Reliquary" in IA 2- for Codex Marines, this is the Master of the Forge. That would permit 3 Sicarans, but you can still only give 1 per 1000 points the Legacies of Glory, and you can't take 2 of the same Legacy no matter what.

How many points is a Master of the Forge?

[energongoodie]

90

[Andrew Thomas]

The Skyfire comes from a Legacy of Glory, the unique "titles" in the back of IA2. I believe IA 13 has Legacies as well, or are they unique Daemonic Possessions? Either way, it's a one-use-per-game, one-per-army buff. Although I would pay good money to get a Helical Targeting Array for the Sicaran (the thing some Dreads get that lets them choose to have Skyfire and Interceptor if they stay still).

Side question: do you have to apply both rules to the same shooting attack with HTA? Cause if you do, I nominate Deathmarks and Riptides, with Broadsides a close 3rd.

[DWest]

Helical Targeting Array applies Skyfire and Interceptor to everything the model has on it, for the remainder of the game turn. You gain the Helical effect by having the model stand still (currently only Walkers have it, so you can move to get rid of it without sacrificing anything). Unfortunately, with the way it's worded ("remainder of the game turn"), if you're going 2nd, you'll never have a chance to intercept.

[Renegade]

I'm really over the whining about the Wave Serpent. The line "You can't complain about another unit because you play Eldar" is the most moronic logic I think that I've been exposed to.

Complaining about a FW unit where you take FW units is moronic.

Furthermore the projection about how he's using hornets with pulse lasers was especially confusing... "80 pts for 4 S8 AP2 shots per turn". I don't recall the OP saying how he outfitted his hornets. For all we know he was putting shuricannons on them (its whats on mine).

Great, so they go from stupidly cheap AT skimmers to stupidly cheap AI skimmers.

How about d-bags who think that others' opinion isn't worth listening to just because he plays a certain army? Just because he plays Eldar doesn't mean that he spams 5 wave serpents a game. It doesn't mean that he ever ran a mounted council with the Baron in it. It doesn't mean that he's a powergaming d*ck whose out to ruin your good time.

Perhaps because Eldar have nothing to complain about, and the complaint in question is in regards to what is a good tank. The Eldar player should be glad that it isn't some kind of super skimmer that is all but impossible to destroy, or whatever flavour of OP that GW constantly give Eldar.

Eldar have all kinds of d-bag tricks in the codex, and they get new ones with each codex, they are the last players that should be crying.

I'm sick of the wave serpent hate. Its a transport/tank that is good. Its ONLY problem is that its spammable. I've had my wave serpents blown up so many times by IG heavy weapons squads, Hydras, Noise Marines, Tau markerlit missile shenanigans, thunderhammers to the hull... Its just silly that there's so much complaining over one silly tank. For the life of me I don't see why more people aren't piping up about the new Necron codex.. the crap you can apparently pull with Zandrekh and allies of convenience is going to be a real "fun" one.

Necrons don't have the ridiculousness of Eldar, and at least the necron player base seems to acknowledge they have little to nothing to complain about, particularly when it comes to tanks.

The existence of that one silly tank doesn't relegate us Eldar players opinions below any other army's players. If you have a problem with his actual complaint then fine - but your problem shouldn't be "he plays Eldar".

Problem is "he plays Eldar" and is complaining about a non-LoW unit that just happens to be good, nothing overly special, just good for its points.