Sicaran Battle Tank...the most d-bag unit ever?

[Lost Vyper]

Yeah...

When a unit gets TOO much of everything...yesterday, we had a game with my friend and he wanted to proxy the Sicaran Battle Tank and since we wasn´t filming, i was cool with it. BUT, the rules for that, oh my godz! Accelerator Autocannon first. Its a 48" S7 AP4 heavy 6, Rending, with rapid tracking (ignores jink saves). Yeah AND twin-linked. You can get a relic to get TANK HUNTER, and for larger games another, that can knock of Haywire. Once / game Interceptor/Skyfire...Did i mention the Ceramic Plating option? And AV13 ALL AROUND...this is when Forge World just puts EVERYTHING in to one tank. I told my friend, that this could be the unit (get a character, was it a Chaplain? Can´t remember and you can get THREE of these), that i would just not play against. And it´s cheap without any upgrades, about a predator with all lascannons...thank the dicegodz my friend thought it "a bit" OP too...i sometimes use my Forge World Hornet´s and even thou they are cheap and great, you can actually KILL THEM...they have weaknesses....that tank does not...that´s the kind of unit that takes the fun out of the game IMHO...

Does someone use these? How does the opponent look like, when i whip it out of the case? Are these used in some tournaments?

- Lost Vyper

[SgtJoo]

Honestly, I'm reading this and all I'm hearing is that you're upset that there's a hard counter to eldar skimmer shenanigans. I'll admit that I'm shocked that the guy who has admitted to fielding one of the most undercosted FW units (The Hornet) is complaining about the Sicaran. That said, not even close mate, it still dies, just like any other unit. Is it really good in the current meta? Heck yes! It's great for killing WS and their ilk.

Imperials have a fairly easy time killing it, Lascannons work great! Heck, Missiles will do in a pinch, and while it may have AC, the thing is, it's only AV 13 so Melta can still Pen, and if it does, there's a solid chance you're going to knock the thing out of the fight. From an Eldar Perspective (since that seems to be what you play), Lances work great, Haywire is always a solid choice, even if he does give it the legacy for 4++ vs haywire, and again, Melta is never a bad option.

[Tokunator]

It is strong, no doubt about it, but it is not over-powered. Hornets with 4 S8 AP2 shots for 80 points are a completely different league of broken.

With all the upgrades you mention, it comes close to 200 points and all it does is kill skimmers. Granted, it does that very well, but without AP1-2 on the main gun, it has to go through all hull points the hard way (no, Rending does not give you AP2 against vehicles). Put it against bikers with a Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, a Wolfstar or a Tau Triptide list and all it does is bounce off as it fails to chew through their saves fast enough.

It is a simple hard counter for Eldar, but as a player whose 15.000 points of Eldar gather dust because they are just too boring to play, we might need a hard counter to make tournaments interesting again.

[Mr Mystery]

Its not Super Heavy.

It's a Relic, so unlikely to face many in a single army.

It ain't cheap cash wise (I don't do proxies myself, nor really allow in the general run of things. Especially given the Sicaran is a uniquely sized tank).

As others have said, it's really not that hard to drop it either.

[DrLove42]

Call the Waaahbulance. Youre playing Eldar, one of the top power armies and field Hornets, one of the strongest Fw units. Get a grip
Not to mention Eldar have one of the most effective anti Av13 long range weapons in the game - a bright lance.


With that said I dont know the rites of war from that book, but id check he can add Tank Hunters amd the AA thing.

[Lost Vyper]

1) My opinion, but i´ll say that the Necron OR CSM player would also despise the unit
2) Price = Value, gimme a better choice, which unit is more OP? And if the answer is a Wave Serpent, don´t bother, we have heard enough cries about that...
3) As i said, the Hornet´s ARE great, they´ll still fall WAY faster
4) If the Bright Lance is the best option to deal with it --> Wave Serpent spam --> more crying. And even i, as an Eldar player, don´t enjoy spamming WS´s. I use max two in a game.

As for the good, valid points, yep Forge World is expensive (i know) and we don´t normally use Super Heavies in regular, just for that OP factor. If he had add Creramic Plating, that would have dudded the Meltas. I had Fire Dragons in a Raider ready to WWP next to it, but he protected the Sicaran with a Bikesquad with Grav-guns AND he had yet to use the Interceptor rule. I couldn´t risk that Raider blowing up and loosing few meltas and maybe even get pinned in the process.

So, summa summarum, people think that Hornet´s are more OP than Sicaran? And Eldar players don´t have any place to ask questions or complain about things that are clearly way OP? Okay, truly noted...

- Lost Vyper

[DWest]

Thing is, the Sicaran isn't very OP, except in the specific situation of countering flyers or skimmers. Additionally, the Interceptor + Skyfire ability comes from the Legacies of Glory, so it could be purchased for any vehicle in a Space Marine (BA/DA/SW) army. It just happens to get thrown on a Sicaran most often, because the Legacy of Sarosh says "choose 1 weapon to gain these abilities", and the Sicaran has the most shots for a single gun. You could easily buy the Sarosh title for a Vindicator, if you wanted to make Reserves suicidal.

Also, this isn't well known, seeing as it's a Forgeworld FAQ, but the Sicaran is actually 13/12/12 for AV- the 13 all-around in IA 2 is a misprint.

[energongoodie]

Just a quickie on the armour values from forgeworlds downloads section

IMPERIAL ARMOUR VOLUME TWO – SECOND EDITION
CLARIFICATIONS AND ERRATA – UPDATED 20-12-2013
ERRATA
Relic Sicaran Battle Tank (page 79)
The Side and Rear Armour values of the Relic Sicaran Battle Tank are 12.

[Myreknight]

1) My opinion, but i´ll say that the Necron OR CSM player would also despise the unit
2) Price = Value, gimme a better choice, which unit is more OP? And if the answer is a Wave Serpent, don´t bother, we have heard enough cries about that...
3) As i said, the Hornet´s ARE great, they´ll still fall WAY faster
4) If the Bright Lance is the best option to deal with it --> Wave Serpent spam --> more crying. And even i, as an Eldar player, don´t enjoy spamming WS´s. I use max two in a game.

As for the good, valid points, yep Forge World is expensive (i know) and we don´t normally use Super Heavies in regular, just for that OP factor. If he had add Creramic Plating, that would have dudded the Meltas. I had Fire Dragons in a Raider ready to WWP next to it, but he protected the Sicaran with a Bikesquad with Grav-guns AND he had yet to use the Interceptor rule. I couldn´t risk that Raider blowing up and loosing few meltas and maybe even get pinned in the process.

So, summa summarum, people think that Hornet´s are more OP than Sicaran? And Eldar players don´t have any place to ask questions or complain about things that are clearly way OP? Okay, truly noted...

- Lost Vyper

My buddy uses two sicaran in his lists as a standard. My CSM don't really have more problems with these they then do anything else really. I have plenty of ways to deal with them.
Also, why shouldn't we bother about the wave serpent? You're asking for an example and that's a very good one. Just because we've known for a long time that it's undercosted means it can't be a good example? If you start tacking all those upgrades on the sicaran it starts to get expensive fast, and even if all you have is ways to strip HP doesn't it just have 3?

[CoffeeGrunt]

I was hoping for a decent thread, but this is just a whinefest. Anything with a 3+ Armour or AV14 will laugh at this, and that Tank Hunter upgrade is one per Army IIRC.

Not to mention it'd be severely hurt by a Crew Stunned/Shaken result.