my armies: knights of the raven and silver knights of tzeentch

[azekio]

here are my two armies. any suggestions/ comments welcome. have been mainly made from a modelling perspective, though i am gearing up to play the brittish tournament season soon. pics will appear in the modelling secion at some point. aong with the fluff/ drawings i've done.

the knights of the raven. everything is either infiltate or drop pod bar the devs who have a razor back, who i could keep in reserve.

HQ

a (counts as sicarius) captain 200

a (counts as shrike) chaplain 195

ELITES

10 sternguard + PF + 2x H.flamer + drop pod 330

venerable + heavy flamer + TL H.flamer + drop pod 210

troops

tac 1 with multimelta + melta + pwrfist + melta bombs + homer 210 (infiltrare from sic)

tac 2 with missile + flamer + pwrfist + drop pod 220

scouts x 10 + shotguns + pwrfist + teleport homer 180

scouts x 5 + 4 sniper + h.bolter 85

FAST

assualt squad x 10 + 2 flamers + pwrfist 235 (inflitrate with shrike)

scout bikers x 5 + pwrfist + 3 grenade launchers + cluster mines 175

HEAVY

thudfire cannon + drop pod 135

deverstators + 2 plas + 2 las cannons + razorback + TL las cannon. 285

2450


any suggestions? thinking about turning the tac in the dp into an assualt squad in a dp to go with sicarius.


and their sworn enemies

THE SILVER KNIGHTS OF TZEENTCH

HQ

daemon prince of Tzeentch "Jibber jabber"

wings, warp time, winds of chaos 210

daemon prince of Tzeentch "mouther"

wings, warp time, winds of chaos 210


ELITES

5x terminators + MoTzeentch + fist + chainfist + reaper + champ + 4combimeltas 265

dreadnaught + multimelta + flamer + extra armour 120

10 x chosen of tzeentch + champ with pwrfist, heavy bolter + 3x plasma + rhino 350

TROOPS

9 thousand sons + sorcerer + bolt of change + icon + rhino 331

10 CSM of tzeentch + lascannon + melta + champ + fist + combi rhino 300

10 CSM of tzeentch + champ + pwr fist + combimelta + 2 flamer 140

12 summoned deamons 156

FAST

5 bikers + tzeentch + champ + pwrfist + 2 melta 265

HEAVY

defiler + lascannon + havoc launchers 175

possessed pred + h.bolters + combi melta 130

havocs of tzeentch x 5 + champ + fist + 4 missiles 235

2887

again any comments welcomed. ie should the havocs have moTz?

what 1500 points armies could i make from these heroes and rouges?


'zek

[Chumbalaya]

a (counts as sicarius) captain 200

Why Sicarius? He is too expensive for infiltrating 1 Tactical Squad. Pass.

a (counts as shrike) chaplain 195

Nasty.

10 sternguard + PF + 2x H.flamer + drop pod 330

Lose the PF, pick up combi-meltas. You don't want to fight HtH.

venerable + heavy flamer + TL H.flamer + drop pod 210

Too pricey, lose the Venerable. MM/HF.

tac 1 with multimelta + melta + pwrfist + melta bombs + homer 210 (infiltrare from sic)

Homers don't work on Pods, this so isn't worth 400 points.

tac 2 with missile + flamer + pwrfist + drop pod 220

MM, F, combi-melta. Come in second wave to hold objectives.

scouts x 10 + shotguns + pwrfist + teleport homer 180

Lose the homer, stick to knives. Get another unit.

scouts x 5 + 4 sniper + h.bolter 85

Beef them up and add camo cloak.

assualt squad x 10 + 2 flamers + pwrfist 235 (inflitrate with shrike)

These guys aren't very good in assault, you can do much better. Assault Termies spring to mind.

scout bikers x 5 + pwrfist + 3 grenade launchers + cluster mines 175

Not even a combi-melta or melta bombs? I'd rather have more Scouts or Deep Striking Speeders.

thudfire cannon + drop pod 135

Can't fire when it lands, too easy to knock out.

[quote\deverstators + 2 plas + 2 las cannons + razorback + TL las cannon. 285[/quote]

Lascannons are fail for the price. Too expensive to waste turns in reserve and too small to survive on their own.

Shrike + Drop Pods is a very nasty combo to get all sorts of mean units in really quick. Have Shrike infiltrate with TH/SS Termies (fleet!!!) and beat faces in with Scouts holding objectives or supporting as necessary. Drop in with Sternguard and Dreads with Tacticals and speeders held back. A MotF would be handy to include more Dreads.

daemon prince of Tzeentch "Jibber jabber"

wings, warp time, winds of chaos 210

daemon prince of Tzeentch "mouther"

wings, warp time, winds of chaos 210

Nasty

5x terminators + MoTzeentch + fist + chainfist + reaper + champ + 4combimeltas 265

Needs a Land Raider, teleporting won't end well.

dreadnaught + multimelta + flamer + extra armour 120

Get another, just stick them out in front so they won't blow anything up.

10 x chosen of tzeentch + champ with pwrfist, heavy bolter + 3x plasma + rhino 350

A single Rhino is a dead Rhino, I can think of plenty of things I'd rather spend 350 points on.

9 thousand sons + sorcerer + bolt of change + icon + rhino 331

TSons are trash, sad but true.

10 CSM of tzeentch + lascannon + melta + champ + fist + combi rhino 300

No lascannon, get another melta.

10 CSM of tzeentch + champ + pwr fist + combimelta + 2 flamer 140

2 meltas, you need help against armor.

12 summoned deamons 156

Meh.

5 bikers + tzeentch + champ + pwrfist + 2 melta 265

Decent suicide melta unit, that's it. 2 min squads with max melta would be better, if at all.

defiler + lascannon + havoc launchers 175

Low BS + lascannon = fail. Make him stompy and run at people, it's hilarious.

possessed pred + h.bolters + combi melta 130

Low BS = fail.

havocs of tzeentch x 5 + champ + fist + 4 missiles 235

5 men and every one is important? No thanks. Get Oblits.

This one is a complete mess. You have a little mech, a little shooting, very little AT, and some monsters. Get a focus for them, big and stompy (Dreads, Defilers, DPs), balanced (Oblits, CSM in Rhinos, DPs, Termies+LR or Dreads), or something similar.

[azekio]

thanks. good advice. was thinking about making the defiler a stomping monstrocity. would you go hf and dccw or 2 dccw? would you un possess the pred and add las? btw the ts and the unit of csm are both in rhinos too. your right though i needs a LR.

'zek

[Chumbalaya]

Just make it straight stompy, the Defiler has very poor ranged options beyond the Battle Cannon.

Dreads can do MM and HF, run them up front so they won't pop your army, as you need the melta to hurt tanks.

[azekio]

THE SILVER KNIGHTS OF TZEENTCH

HQ

chaos lord of tzeentch in teminator armour + daemon weapon 160

daemon prince of Tzeentch "mouther"

wings, warp time, winds of chaos 210

greater deamon 100


ELITES

4x terminators champs + MoTzeentch + fist + chainfist + reaper + 3combimeltas 265

land raider 220 (for lord+retinue)

dreadnaught + multimelta + flamer + extra armour 120

10 x chosen of tzeentch + champ with pwrfist, 2xflamer 2xmelta + rhino 310

TROOPS

10 csm of tzeentch + hbolter + flamer + champ + fist + combi rhino 290

10 CSM of tzeentch + lascannon + melta + champ + fist + combi rhino 300

12 summoned deamons 156

FAST

5 bikers + tzeentch + champ + pwrfist + 2 melta 265

HEAVY

defiler + 2 ccw 150

pred + h.bolters + combi melta 110

havocs of x 10 + champ + fist + 4 missiles + rhino 295

2989

any better?

[Chumbalaya]

You don't need the Lord, pick up another DP (shooty Daemon weapon + assaulty unit is interesting).

Chosen are pricey and die like normal CSM, just be aware. Single Dread is an obvious target.

Rhino squads need meltas, all day all the time. Plague Marines might serve you better (call them Rubric marines with older, tougher armor).

Bikes are meh, too pricey for too little effect.

Single Defiler is a big target.

Dakka Pred is good.

Foot Havocs are bleh, Oblits are better.

Still just a mish-mash of different units. It needs focus, a clear way to deal with heavy armor, light armor, transports and their occupants, super units, hordes, marines, and all that jazz. It's best to have units with multiple roles and multiple units so losing 1 unit doesn't ruin your plan.

[azekio]

i've amended again. great idea about usng plague marines!

You don't need the Lord, pick up another DP (shooty Daemon weapon + assaulty unit is interesting).

check out the daemon weapon box. says adds d6 attacks in close combat plus the mark specific gift of d6 assualt. thats a lot of fire power pre assualt then a nasty assualt weapon.

Chosen are pricey and die like normal CSM, just be aware.

true. they are becoming plague marines - they look all mutated anyway - they just keep regenerating when you shoot them. 2 meltas a rhino and pf of course!

Single Dread is an obvious target.

making another one. same build.

Rhino squads need meltas, all day all the time. Plague Marines might serve you better (call them Rubric marines with older, tougher armor). dealt with

Bikes are meh, too pricey for too little effect.

might give them mon instead of motz

Single Defiler is a big target.

Dakka Pred is good.

Foot Havocs will become CSM of khorne - is it worth using beserkers, or should i take csm with mark to include special weapons?

Oblits are better. - i is a making some

Still just a mish-mash of different units. It needs focus, a clear way to deal with heavy armor, light armor, transports and their occupants, super units, hordes, marines, and all that jazz. It's best to have units with multiple roles and multiple units so losing 1 unit doesn't ruin your plan.