How is 40k 7th edition "less competitive" than 40k 5th edition

[CoffeeGrunt]

From my point of view as a relatively new player, the main reasons people seem to think the current edition is the worst ever is price, and nostalgia.

Things are more expensive, which makes the cost of getting new units to keep up with an evolving metagame simply impossible, especially given the speed it's updating in lately. As far as nostalgia, many of the old timers who went over to Warmachine say that 4th Edition - the one they started playing in - was simply much more 'fun and 'balanced,' even though objectively it wasn't. However, that was also when their armies could wipe the opponent from the table, so of course they'd think that was the best era of the game.

Most of the competitively-minded players have moved to WarmaHordes here, thankfully. If they'd just stop harassing other players to get them to join it, I think we'd have a pretty peaceful setup.

[Filthy Casual]

People complain about stuff, thats their nature, especially online, there is never anything that will satisfy people, GW have made and always will make casual wargames for people to play with their cool toys.

The company has, since it was bought out by Brian Ansell of Citadel in 1984, always been about making models, the rules are there as a secondary thing to the hobby of collecting armies, its still an important part of the hobby, but for the last 30 years, miniatures have always come first.

The new rule books spell that out, the fluff is book 1, the models are book 2 and the rules are last. Same in the End Times and the Campaigns, the rules are the least important part of the hobby.

[Auticus]

I think price is definitely a big part of it, but the thing is - price really has (to me) no bearing on the ruleset itself.

I understand that tournament guys in the past owned every book, lobbied against forge world hard because they didn't want to have to buy forge world books too, and memorized the books they had (or in our case we had flashcards of every special rule and unit in the game we'd drill several times a week), and that today thats a lot more expensive and with the number of formations etc out likely impossible - but then again that doesn't make the game not competitive either since anytime someone shows up with something you don't know you can simply take 5 minutes before the game to ask what everything does.

[Filthy Casual]

There is also a lot more random effects in the game now, which competitive types don't like as it can't be factored into their masterful strategy of spamming the best units over and over again.

[Charon]

since anytime someone shows up with something you don't know you can simply take 5 minutes before the game to ask what everything does.

Would not count on that for the same reason as we do not see a lot of horde armies. Time is precious and having to ask or look up a lot of things will delay your game and thus lead o a premature ending as there are time limits in place.
Also I would argue that "more options" does not lead to "more diversity". Once the mass of players have found the best option, this will be played no matter how many options there were.
Just look at Knights. Nights everywhere. Space Marines with Knights, Necrons with Knights, I have eben seen Tyranids with Knights.
Deathstars are still in the game (all imperial ones are intact) and FW heavily favors the imperial faction. So I dont think that more options do lead to more different lists.
Also I can see why TOs try to limit the systems involved.
If you look at a bigger tournament you already have tons of Errata, FAQ and rule clarifications. And thats just the "basic game". Wanna do this for all FW books too?

[Mr Mystery]

Anyone would think the rule set wasn't designed to be played within a specific time period.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Am I the only player that's managed to memorise their Codices? I can write an army list from memory without it and remember all the special rules during gameplay without having to grab the book all the time, most players I know are the same.

[Mr Mystery]

I suffer from mild to severe Edition lag, having been shooting up the Galaxy since 2nd Ed (and some very tentative fumbles with Rogue Trader).

Warhammer is just as bad for me. It's seriously a push to remember Magic doesn't come at the end of the turn any more (and hasn't done for a long old time)....

[Cutter]

Am I the only player that's managed to memorise their Codices? I can write an army list from memory without it and remember all the special rules during gameplay without having to grab the book all the time, most players I know are the same.

Those days are long gone.

- - - Updated - - -

I suffer from mild to severe Edition lag, having been shooting up the Galaxy since 2nd Ed (and some very tentative fumbles with Rogue Trader).

Warhammer is just as bad for me. It's seriously a push to remember Magic doesn't come at the end of the turn any more (and hasn't done for a long old time)....

Our gang have similar issues.

When you edition/games played ratio drops below a certain level, things can get very fuzzy.

[Auticus]

Would not count on that for the same reason as we do not see a lot of horde armies. Time is precious and having to ask or look up a lot of things will delay your game and thus lead o a premature ending as there are time limits in place.
Also I would argue that "more options" does not lead to "more diversity". Once the mass of players have found the best option, this will be played no matter how many options there were.
Just look at Knights. Nights everywhere. Space Marines with Knights, Necrons with Knights, I have eben seen Tyranids with Knights.
Deathstars are still in the game (all imperial ones are intact) and FW heavily favors the imperial faction. So I dont think that more options do lead to more different lists.
Also I can see why TOs try to limit the systems involved.
If you look at a bigger tournament you already have tons of Errata, FAQ and rule clarifications. And thats just the "basic game". Wanna do this for all FW books too?

I played tournaments solidly for years, placed well, won my fair share, took 5th at chicago GW GT, and did not own every book. I always asked to know the rules ahead of time if I came across something I didn't know.

My 4th ed leaf blower guard was also about 150-180 models. Both existed in the knowledget hat there is a time limit in place.

More diversity is simply that - there is more diversity on the table today. Not talking about more options. The only time i don't see a lot of options today is when there's cash on the line, but even the majority of tournaemnts and campaign events I attend have a rainbow diversity of armies that I have never seen in 17 years of playing 40k, through 3rd edition to today.

The last 5th edition tournament I attended there were 22 players. 16 played draigo grey knights. *16*. 5 played long fang spam space wolves. One player was the token necron player.

This was my experience with the 5th edition competitive scene.

The rest does not attest to how the system is less competitive, it is how some people prefer not to have to faq and learn additional rules. That has nothing to do with a system that can or cannot be competitive. That has everything to do with people not wanting to buy all the books because they feel compelled to do so.

When you edition/games played ratio drops below a certain level, things can get very fuzzy.

Absolutely it becomes difficult to remember rules from edition to edition - I can attest to that!