40K End Times (Plastic Horus Heresy)

[DrBored]

The End Times books sold so well that they ran out of hardcover (at least the first three) and had to print softcovers, which are now on shelves.

A lot of those big kits look pretty good and are selling quite well. I know people with no interest in playing Nagash who bought him. A guy without a Skaven army got a Vermin Lord to convert a Daemon Prince. I've seen multiple Glottkin and Maggoth Lords, and a couple of Mortarchs. Plenty of Blightkings. The Morghasts look absolutely awesome. While the Stormfiends are single-pose, they look brilliant. I have some of them, plus a Verminlord and the new Thanquol and Boneripper, all of which look amazing.

Yeah, killing off armies in the fluff sucks. And while the next edition might snuff them for good, they aren't gone from 8th edition.

I mean, I guess we're just seeing two sides of the hobby, but I've been to 5 hobby stores across the world. Literally. Two in Florida, two in California, and one in JAPAN, and none of those models are moving. I had a friend that liked Nagash and got him, but didn't bother with the books, and one guy got one of the Skaven models, but that's because he's a Skaven nut. Everything else is gathering dust.

[Clockwork]

Honestly, and I don't know why nobody is seeing this, the WFB End Times IS NOT THAT GREAT.

They nuked armies that people loved, made a bunch of big ugly kits that nobody is buying, and printed a bunch of overpriced books that are taking up shelf and inventory space and not moving at all.

Why would GW, after seeing that sort of flop, try to do it AGAIN with their most important slice of business?

Contrary to popular belief, they're a business, not a metaphor for suicide.

WFB had to have End Times because the game was selling so poorly that the only way to fix it was a major upheaval. So I agree, it's not something they would/should do with 40k.

[DrBored]

WFB had to have End Times because the game was selling so poorly that the only way to fix it was a major upheaval. So I agree, it's not something they would/should do with 40k.

This.

TBH, I'd like to see this thread closed so we can stop talking about 40k End Times and start talking about rumors that still hold some merit.

[Erik Setzer]

This.

TBH, I'd like to see this thread closed so we can stop talking about 40k End Times and start talking about rumors that still hold some merit.

Except the thread already evolved into other rumors that had merit... so closing it would shutter those discussions.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

They nuked armies that people loved, made a bunch of big ugly kits that nobody is buying, and printed a bunch of overpriced books that are taking up shelf and inventory space and not moving at all.

You're allowed to dislike the End Times. But these points are all wrong. Flopped? All those books sold out on the webstore - some twice! - and I've seen more people talking about WFB than for years before.

1. No army's gone yet. People are overreacting. Or not really reading properly. (It's the second one).

Seriously, name an army that's "gone," and you'll find that their fate's actually been left ambiguous for the moment.

2. Webstore Warhammer top sellers: Glottkin, Maggoth Lords, Putrid Blightkings and Gutrot Spume are all in the top 12. [url]http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer?N=102351+4294966236&Nu=product.repositor yId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table[/url]

Nagash and the Undead stuff were in there a couple of months ago. I imagine people are gearing up for Archaon. I know my store back in the UK sold out of Warriors of Chaos books and battalions around Christmas, when Glottkin was new.

Don't know the absolute figures - I'm sure it's still less than 40k stuff - but that's not exactly a picture of "not selling". Gnoblars are probably "not selling".

3. Every hardcover initial release of an End Times book sold out the day of preorder from the UK webstore (bit slower in the US, but it did happen). They had to do a second printing of Nagash and eventually came out with softcover versions of all the books. Demand for them took GW by surprise.

[DrBored]

You're allowed to dislike the End Times. But these points are all wrong. Flopped? All those books sold out on the webstore - some twice! - and I've seen more people talking about WFB than for years before.

1. No army's gone yet. People are overreacting. Or not really reading properly. (It's the second one).

Seriously, name an army that's "gone," and you'll find that their fate's actually been left ambiguous for the moment.

2. Webstore Warhammer top sellers: Glottkin, Maggoth Lords, Putrid Blightkings and Gutrot Spume are all in the top 12. [url]http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer?N=102351+4294966236&Nu=product.repositor yId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table[/url]

Nagash and the Undead stuff were in there a couple of months ago. I imagine people are gearing up for Archaon. I know my store back in the UK sold out of Warriors of Chaos books and battalions around Christmas, when Glottkin was new.

Don't know the absolute figures - I'm sure it's still less than 40k stuff - but that's not exactly a picture of "not selling". Gnoblars are probably "not selling".

3. Every hardcover initial release of an End Times book sold out the day of preorder from the UK webstore (bit slower in the US, but it did happen). They had to do a second printing of Nagash and eventually came out with softcover versions of all the books. Demand for them took GW by surprise.

1. Fluff where the Skaven (one of my least favorite obnoxious factions) all but annihilates the Lizardmen (my favorite WFB faction) is not very encouraging. Further beating on the Dwarves is also not encouraging.

2. New kits are always the best sellers, c'mon now.

3. I've heard the UK is bigger into Fantasy than America, so maybe I'm just seeing a lot of that. All I know is, nobody I know has invested beyond one of the big kits. Maybe I just saw stores that are heavy into every other facet of the hobby, but seeing those books not move at all and not seeing anyone actually put one of those big (I still maintain 'ugly') models on the table is not very encouraging to me.

Plus, 0 attention has been given to the 'good' factions, which isn't very encouraging either. It's all these big creepy half-dead pus-dripping gooey models that I don't want to touch, let alone look at.

Again, that's just my toxic vehement opinion.

And, I maintain, that such an event would be disastrous for 40k.

As much as I would LOVE Chaos Daemons and Chaos Marines to get proper, beautiful attention in the form of massive models and new ground-breaking rules, it would, like Fantasy, leave the 'good' guys with nothing to retaliate with, and GW would NEVER put the Space Marines on the back foot.

The things happening in Fantasy are wrecking whole factions and changing the face of the game and the races that participate. 40k has such popular and established races that wiping any of them down to their last dregs would be ridiculously silly. They've already alienated Sisters of Battle players, but this would mean alienating players of other, popular factions, just like they're now alienating Lizardmen players.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Like I say, you're allowed to think that - and I agree, I don't want it for 40k! It's a different setting that works in a different way.

I still think you're wrong about the End Times, but I'm enjoying it.

(Nothing for the good guys? What's Karl Franz Ascendant, chopped liver!?)

[Erik Setzer]

The reason no one's put them on the table is their points cost. Off the top of my head, and I could be wrong, this is what it looks like:

Glottkin - 850
Nagash - 1000
Mortarchs - 650ish
Maggoth Lords - 450ish
Super-Saiyan Karl Franz - 850
Super-Saiyan Malekith - 1000
Thanquol - 650
Verminlords - 500

They had to change the core army composition to let people take them in 2000 point games, which is the basic point level people play at. At that point, Nagash is half your army, and you have to hope he gets off his spells to bring in a lot of new units. Oh, and spell-casting is easier to counter in WFB than 40K, but there's also some nasty "kill ANYTHING" spells, so that huge points sink could be snuffed in one go, like when someone got off Purple Sun of Xereus on Nagash, and this awesome, expensive model that had taken weeks to paint died with a single unlucky die roll (he rolled a 6 for the Initiative test; poof, Nagash is gone, no save). So they're a risk to take when it's not something like Apocalypse levels of games. Sort of like Ork Stompas and Imperial Baneblades, where they changed the core rules to encourage people to take them in normal games, but they're bloody expensive, and most people won't want to play against them (the levels of whining I hear about my Stompa are quite insane), so you still don't see them that often, and I hardly ever see one of those models sell. If I was to assume that their perpetual place on the shelf meant none of them were selling, well, I'd have to assume none were selling, because when one does sell, a new one gets put on the shelf.

So think of it like Apoc with 40K... It's an exciting new way to play the game, but could be a bit crazier at low point levels. I've had some fun matches with the stuff, and we're going to do a massive multiplayer End Times bash toward the end of March (likely Archaon's horde of Chaos armies against the combined armies of those arrayed to stop him, like Nagash, the Elves, etc.).

40K doesn't need any kind of shakeup, it's doing okay, it's only mildly in remission and not on life support. Besides, it's already gotten the rules shakeup. And heck, they keep changing the fluff anyway. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade already happened and failed, but they retconned that. The Tyranids keep changing. The Necron fluff's been rewritten multiple times. That's all just modern changes. And they wiped out Squats at one point, a lot of the "news" armies coming in are armies that existed before but got snuffed out... Really, "End Times" events have happened for 40K over time, just not all at once. But seriously, go ask someone about how much fun they're having with their Squats, or Imperial Beastmen, or Orks with power weapons, or Adeptus Arbites, or Harlequins prior to the new codex coming out, or Genestealer Cults (that's a rumor of a new book right now, but doesn't change the nearly two decades of no rules), or Eldar Exodites and/or Pirates, Space Marine Jetbikes, Feral Orks, Madboyz, or so many other units and armies that have been wiped out.

[Bigred]

via Steve the Warboss 2-25-2015

-Gaming Set Includes a Suppliment for the Age of Darkness
-Rules and a Dettachment for Playing Legio Astartes and Xenos in the Past of 40k
-A new Allied Matrix including Xenos of the 31st Millenium
-Very generic Dataslates for the Models, only the featured Characters will have specific Background, but can used for any Legion
-Unlike the previous Sets, the Squads will have no unique Leaders, only names "Sergeant"
-Box will include 6 versions of new Sprues

[Kirsten]

still sounding awesome