Admech, Genecult, AND Deathwatch!

[Arkhan Land]

oooooooh collosus, my favortie rt robot, I have three but im guessing if its anything like the castellax theyll be nigh too short

[Erik Setzer]

Personally I think if this is all true, then 40K wont have been this good since the early days of Rouge Trader and the accompanying books.

If the sales keep dropping with all this... I think it'll be time to make a backup hobby plan, or hope someone swoops in.

While I'm excited, I'm also a little worried. The drop in revenues seemed to point to fewer new people coming into the games, as a lot of revenue would have been made from existing customers buying the new edition of 40K, Knights, Tempestus Scions, new codices, two campaigns, all kinds of cool stuff. These books are giving us armies existing players have been asking for, and that's great for us. But how do these releases address the issue of getting new players into the game? That's what would really excite me even more than seeing armies I've been waiting for. (Oh, I'm excited about them. alright, except for knowing I'll be dropping a lot of cash and my to-do list of hobby projects will keep increasing and backing up.)

[40kGamer]

Remember folks - if people are making this up, Mr Chainsaw is going to have a comedy visit to Mr Kneecaps.

Already got my Louisville Slugger warmed up for a quick trip to the rumor source.

[DrBored]

If the sales keep dropping with all this... I think it'll be time to make a backup hobby plan, or hope someone swoops in.

While I'm excited, I'm also a little worried. The drop in revenues seemed to point to fewer new people coming into the games, as a lot of revenue would have been made from existing customers buying the new edition of 40K, Knights, Tempestus Scions, new codices, two campaigns, all kinds of cool stuff. These books are giving us armies existing players have been asking for, and that's great for us. But how do these releases address the issue of getting new players into the game? That's what would really excite me even more than seeing armies I've been waiting for. (Oh, I'm excited about them. alright, except for knowing I'll be dropping a lot of cash and my to-do list of hobby projects will keep increasing and backing up.)

You sound surprised.

Consider the world we live in. Babies are introduced to smart phones and tablets almost as soon as they can wave their arms around. Who has time to go to a comic shop when Tiffany is flinging drama at Bethany on Twitter? Katy Perry did what? Kanye West did WHAT?? Kids are being raised in totally separate worlds, and their parents are just as involved in those worlds more than ever before. The 'new players' that GW is looking for are going to be the kids of nerds like us. You want to help GW? Procreate and raise your kids to like social hobbies.

[Erik Setzer]

You sound surprised.

Consider the world we live in. Babies are introduced to smart phones and tablets almost as soon as they can wave their arms around. Who has time to go to a comic shop when Tiffany is flinging drama at Bethany on Twitter? Katy Perry did what? Kanye West did WHAT?? Kids are being raised in totally separate worlds, and their parents are just as involved in those worlds more than ever before. The 'new players' that GW is looking for are going to be the kids of nerds like us. You want to help GW? Procreate and raise your kids to like social hobbies.

That's not the issue I've seen. I see people come in, interested... then they look at the prices, and leave. The barrier of entry needs to be lowered. Having an $85 rulebook or $125 box set with figures people might not want doesn't really help people want to jump in.

Even with a hobby as "expensive" as video games, you can get a brand new console not even on sale for less than what I just paid for Skaven additions (not an army, just new stuff for the army), and less than the new End Times books, and then if you're patient you can nab games for $20-$30 even without buying used (especially close to Christmas, when brand new games will be on sale for 33-50% off quite often). I have a large collection of games because a lot of them I could buy pretty cheap just by waiting, and they didn't diminish in actual value. I get that online shooters might (though there's plenty of people to play against in Titanfall, and I just got the Deluxe Edition of that for $12.49), but various RPGs, action games, stuff like that, they don't lose their value, but they do come down in price dramatically. GW stuff starts high and never drops.

I used to gripe about how much it cost to keep going with slot cars, but that was a lot less than what GW games cost. (I mean the 1/24 scale, where a nasty wreck will bend your chassis too much to straighten, and the motors can burn out every couple weeks if the rules allow tweaking. With 1/32 scale, you're good with a controller and a car, and you can a good combination of those for less than $150. You can be solid for less than $100 even.)

Harlequins are awesome, but for a new player? Not so much. I've dropped over $200 on them so far, and that's netted me about 600 points if I throw all kinds of stuff on the models... base cost for those models is about 450 points. That's a third of what people play games at. So someone's looking at more like $500-$600, plus the codex, and of course, the rulebook. And this isn't even a horde army. Mercifully, you don't have many options with the army, so it's not a huge concern to buy extra models to have variety. AdMech sound like a similar situation.

So, yeah... these are great for those of us in the nostalgia crowd, and those of us who are already in the game, but don't fix the problem of trying to get people into the game.

[DrBored]

That's not the issue I've seen. I see people come in, interested... then they look at the prices, and leave. The barrier of entry needs to be lowered. Having an $85 rulebook or $125 box set with figures people might not want doesn't really help people want to jump in.

Even with a hobby as "expensive" as video games, you can get a brand new console not even on sale for less than what I just paid for Skaven additions (not an army, just new stuff for the army), and less than the new End Times books, and then if you're patient you can nab games for $20-$30 even without buying used (especially close to Christmas, when brand new games will be on sale for 33-50% off quite often). I have a large collection of games because a lot of them I could buy pretty cheap just by waiting, and they didn't diminish in actual value. I get that online shooters might (though there's plenty of people to play against in Titanfall, and I just got the Deluxe Edition of that for $12.49), but various RPGs, action games, stuff like that, they don't lose their value, but they do come down in price dramatically. GW stuff starts high and never drops.

I used to gripe about how much it cost to keep going with slot cars, but that was a lot less than what GW games cost. (I mean the 1/24 scale, where a nasty wreck will bend your chassis too much to straighten, and the motors can burn out every couple weeks if the rules allow tweaking. With 1/32 scale, you're good with a controller and a car, and you can a good combination of those for less than $150. You can be solid for less than $100 even.)

Harlequins are awesome, but for a new player? Not so much. I've dropped over $200 on them so far, and that's netted me about 600 points if I throw all kinds of stuff on the models... base cost for those models is about 450 points. That's a third of what people play games at. So someone's looking at more like $500-$600, plus the codex, and of course, the rulebook. And this isn't even a horde army. Mercifully, you don't have many options with the army, so it's not a huge concern to buy extra models to have variety. AdMech sound like a similar situation.

So, yeah... these are great for those of us in the nostalgia crowd, and those of us who are already in the game, but don't fix the problem of trying to get people into the game.

Yes, the expense is quite the barrier, but I know that part of a hobby is being included. People drop thousands of dollars to go on ski trips with friends every year because it's what they do. So the next time a person comes in and scoffs at the price, say, 'Hey, but check all this out, you can start small, and I even have an extra army that you can play while you add on your own'.

I've heard a lot of people that say they have 4, 5, even 10 different armies, but when's the last time those people lets someone new borrow an army for the sake of getting into the hobby and feeling included?

[Erik Setzer]

I've heard a lot of people that say they have 4, 5, even 10 different armies, but when's the last time those people lets someone new borrow an army for the sake of getting into the hobby and feeling included?

Well, as someone with a lot of spare armies but no way to transport them (no car; I either walk to the shop or get a ride with a friend), I know that another option is to let someone borrow part of your army and just do two sides with the same faction. Alternately, find someone else to play, and do a 2-v-1 or 2-v-2 mentoring the person as you fight alongside them.

Since I play in a GW store, though, the manager tends to intercept potential new customers. He does have some good points to try to help massage the price a bit, i.e. by noting that Dark Vengeance is a complete game that you can play like a board game even if you choose not to get into the hobby.

[This Dave]

Really hoping the Deathwatch rumors are true. Have an entire Deathwatch army I would really like an official codex for.

[Arkhan Land]

I've heard a lot of people that say they have 4, 5, even 10 different armies, but when's the last time those people lets someone new borrow an army for the sake of getting into the hobby and feeling included?

I feel lucky enough that I play with a tight enough group of weirdos I dont mind lending out a lil detatchment for a week but the sad truth is not one of my friends who has borrowed an army from me has gotten into it : /

my best luck with recruitment is giving away extra SM army pieces I got for free to some of the newer players who really need them but are held back on a time frame for their purchases to fill out armies. I just lucked out when building a company/armoury (Got all infantry for free in addition to handful of rhinos, everything else in the company was a natty auction) and ended up with WAY MORE stuff than Ive ever fielded even in apocalypse games. After all how much do I really need 10 Rhinos/Razors when Ive only ever fielded as many as 7?

[Mr Mystery]

I'm okay lending out the odd unit, but not an entire army.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why! It doesn't extend to my X-Wing toys, just GW stuff. And it's not as if I paint them either.