Demoralized WFB Player

[Erik Setzer]

For Skaven, in a style I'd enjoy, it'd likely be to shift to multiple smallish Clanrat units with weapon teams, then replace some Stormfiends with a Hell Pit Abomination, swap out Verminlord for some Jezzails and other goodness, maybe some Warlock Engineers who can Warp Lightning like crazy and channel to add more power dice. It's possible, at least. That's with the models I have, anyway.

I'll probably try the Ogres this weekend. But first I've been challenged to a 2v2 40K match where I know I'll be facing Murderface McMurderpants, a Stormfang, Thunderwolf Cavalry, the psychic power Endurance, Death Company in a Land Raider, and Dante, just as a starting point. (No points for guessing those two are also the two Chaos Warriors players who won't stop putting MoN on everything even after being told it automatically makes an army a "beatstick" army. Best part was when one of them used such an army against a guy trying to learn how to play, and that guy was using Bretonnians.)

[HERO]

I don't think that will be good personally. MSU does not really work with Skaven as you need solid combat blocks to slow and chaff the enemy. You really need at least 2 blocks of 50+ slaves to pin them there while your rare choices work out the rest.

[Chronowraith]

As Hero stated, MSU Skaven doesn't work. They rely on rank bonus too heavily to run small units of anything. If they don't have rank bonus, they crumble. Additionally, a unit of 30 clanrats versus a block of 30 Chaos Warriors will simply be wiped off the block too fast to be of use. The supporting attacks rule is just too punishing on skaven infantry to take them in small blocks.

Additionally, slaves are typically better as they allow you to fire into the combat to support them. You can't do that with clanrats.

Dropping the Verminlord for different toys may help to some degree but without more infantry blocks you will simply be out-maneuvered and, personally, I'd never build a strategy around magic. It's too unreliable and direct damage spells like warp lightning are even more unreliable (you have to roll to cast, then make it through a dispel attempt, then roll to see how many hits, then roll to wound, etc... too many chances to roll poorly considering you max out at 7-8 wounds max.

Try your Ogres. From the sound of it, they will likely fit your playstyle better (and as someone with 500 points of fully painted skaven, I completely understand not wanting to invest the time to paint 200+ models).

[marful]

Stormfiends + Skaven Slaves = Instant Win.

Engage target unit with Skaven Slaves, then shoot with Dakka Stormfiends. Any to hit roll of 1 auto hits closest friendly unit (skaven slaves). Skaven slaves rule allows you to shoot at any unit they are engaged in CC with also any hits on the skaven slaves are randomized between enemy unit and theirs, effectively netting Dakka Stormfiends a 4+ ballistic skill. 18d6 S5, magical, armor piercing and re-roll to wound hits will destroy any unit chaos has.

Average on 18D6 = 63 shots. Hitting on a 4+ (31.5), 1 in 6 shots hit skaven slaves (10.5) of which 1/2 hit enemy unit (5.25), netting (36.75) hits on the Chaos Warriors. T4 Chaos Warriors vs S5 with re-rolls to wound nets (32.67 wounds). Chaos Warriors in 3+ armor then save on a 6+, resulting in (27.225 Wounds after Saves).

In the case of Nurgle Chaos Warriors with -1 to hit, that drops to (21 hits), of which 1 in 6 hit skaven saves (10.5), of which 1/2 hit enemy unit (5.25), netting (26.25) hits on the Nurgle Chaos Warriors. T4 vs S5 + rerolls nets (23.3 wounds). 5/6 fail armor save resulting in 19.417 dead Chaos Warriors.

Assuming a 30 strong block of Nugle Warriors, they now have 10.583 models left to attack back at that 54.75 (60-5.25) strong slave unit.


6 Skaven Stormfiends = I win button.

*edit: Math fail! 18D6 average is 63 shots, not 81!*

[Chronowraith]

Skaven slaves rule allows you to shoot at any unit they are engaged in CC with also any hits on the skaven slaves are randomized between enemy unit and theirs

Just FYI, the randomization between Slaves and the enemy they are fighting was removed via the FAQ awhile ago. Check out the [URL="http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer/Skaven.pdf"]FAQ [/URL]on page 4 where it says to delete the last two sentences from "Expendable". Those sentences cover randomizing hits between combatants.

Merry Christmas (early?)

[Lord Manton]

With regards to your up coming 40k battle just take all the wave serpents and two wraith Knights and get your buddy to take tau with two of those big suits and a bunch of other cheesy nonsense, crush them under your xenos foot flip them the bird and tell them where they can stick their bullsh*t net lists.
If they won't respect that you don't want to play against that crap, don't play them. They sound like douchebags.

[Mr Mystery]

I need to go check my rulebook, but I have a sneaking suspicion your opponent is pulling a fast one with the Sorcerors in the second rank.

Could be Edition Confusion, but I'm pretty sure characters displace command in the front rank?

[Path Walker]

Its possible with some preforming shennanigans using RAW nonsense, but no, characters joining a unit always go in the front rank.

[Mr Mystery]

That's what I'm getting at.

If you have a frontage of five models, full command and two sorcerors, it's not the sorcerors that head to the second rank?

Will double check when I'm home - really not certain on this one.

[Path Walker]

I think command have to be at the front as a priority, then if there is room characters, if not, second rank, but then the rules don't mention moving them to the front if there is room once they're in the second. So you can set up a very thin unit then reform to be wide and keep the characters in the second rank but thats pretty cheesey