What is "Competitive Gaming" and Why I Feel 40k Never Has Been

[lantzkev]

It's a themed deck.

I tend to buy Magic by the booster box - you make a good saving, and typically end up with most, if not all of the cards you were wanting.

That done, I then see which art and creature type tickles my fancy, and knock a deck together.

But my point here is about the attitude of the player, and how that has a massive impact on the enjoyment of the game.

Someone who flattens your army is one thing. Someone who flattens your army with beardy units, dodgy rules interpretations and a 'compared to me you are nothing, I don't know why you bother to play, I AM THE MESSIAH' type attitude is quite, quite another.

You can get knacked by sheer, dumb luck in most non-Chess games. The cards just don't come up. The dice get into their tiny minds to gang up on you. You can get knacked by a better a player, one who really knows how to stacks the odds against you. And that's all hunky-dorey and makes you a better player overall, because you learn something.

But a showboating WAAC cretin? All I learn is that they're a bit of a Richard, and probably not someone I'd care to play again. It's not even worth playing them to beat them - because they suck all joy out of the victory with meaningless terms like 'you diced me' and other ways to detract from your skill as a player - because in their pathetic little mindset, nobody but the gods of fate can possibly usurp them.

So are we talking about competitive games still ie tournaments, or casual games without much in the way of stakes?

[Mr Mystery]

Both, to be honest.

Casual games are my preference - if I go to an organised event, it's to freshen up my gaming experience by taking on new opponents.

In either scenario, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by being an unpleasant opponent, win or lose. The important thing to remember is that whilst some are there to win the trophy, everyone is there to enjoy themselves. Even a hardcore tournament goer with their own WAAC list won't enjoy a game against a showboater. Doesn't matter which game you happen to be playing. Get in, get the job done as swiftly and competently as you can. If I end up with my bahookie on a silver platter in double quick time, I don't care. If it's clear my bahookie is platter bound from the third turn, but you delay the coup de grace so you can pull off your double hard combo? What's the point. Doesn't increase your win points. Just makes you an unpleasant opponent.

The sole exception to this is of course educational games. If you're showing someone the ropes, regardless of their age, don't just go for the throat. They're interested in learning the mechanics of the game, not how to use said mechanics to beat someone's deck or army senseless in double quick time. This is what put me right off Warmachine - the people I learned to play against were all about the win. They didn't see me as a potential future opponent who needed a guiding hand. Oh no. I was just a NooB punchbag who must be shown the error of not being an experienced player. Suffice to say I sold off what I had very shortly afterwards.

[daboarder]

The question is irrelevant, "is" or "was" is besides the point, its a two player game, it SHOULD be as balanced and therefore as "competitive" as it is possible for the game designers to make it, a sentiment clearly not shared by GW

[Popsical]

Ive been playing GW games since 1988, 40k has never been balanced in all that time, so over 25 years later why the smeg would anyone with any experience of it expect it to be balanced now? Its like saying ive bought this same cake for 30 years and it tastes like crap, i think i will get it again because its bound to taste great today!
Before the interwebz made the whole thing transparent globally, no one gave a poop. Now its a point of frustration for quite a few people that really should know better. It always has been a fluff driven system with pretty models. The problem is that lots of people think its an olympic sport alot of the time.
If i run a WAAC tournament for WAAC players and advertise it as such, it will attract those kind of folk and they will have a blast.
If i run a fluff tournament for fluff players and advertise it as such, it will be won by some total tit who turns up with a stilton cheese fest list that kerb stomps everyone there because he/she is so bloody great at 40k. The rest of the players will be chatting about "that" guy/girl in a less than complimentary way, because they would have had a better blast if "that" guy/girl had stayed at home and masturbated their ego alone.

My advice to any newbie, if asked if 40k is the game for them, would always be "if you want to have fun".
If they want to play a balanced competitve game or sport, find something else 40k aint for you.

[Brother Claudio]

I grow weary whenever I see an article or forum topic with this heading. Because in my eyes, and this is only my opinion, this tells me players just want to win. And secondly that they want to moan about losing.

Competition does seek to find the best overall player. But to go on moaning about the game not being fair or certain lists being unbalanced is absolute idiocy. If you want a balanced game where it is literally the wits and tactics of the person in charge that wins, then play chess. But I bet you don't want to play chess because well 40k is cooler and funner, in my opinion.

To say that list building to make a uber power list is like being handed a pro football team in a high school league is ridiculous and here's why. First off I will talk about actual football (soccer). In England we have several pro leagues. The premier league is filled with the best teams determined through relegation of the worst teams every year and promotion for the best teams in the league below. 40k is not a league system. It's a cup! A tournament! So its not like Man Utd playing in division 2 or the Patriots playing a high school team on a regular basis at all. Because you don't play these people every week. If you did in a league system and kept losing you'd be relegated or they would be promoted and hence you wouldn't play them anymore.

In England we have the League cup which all teams go into. From the premier league, championship, league 1 and league 2.
This is more like 40k. And guess what. Yes it's unlikely a league 2 team will win the tourney/cup. But there's every chance. Players build good lists and what's the problem with that? Manchester City have the most money in England so they buy the best players. But do other teams moan that they've got one of the best teams/lists...no. They get on with it. They play and see what happens.

I agree that terrain should vary in a tournament. For me the way around that is to have a home and away roll. The players pick a table each. The player who wins can pick the table they play on. If you play away though you get more points, like away goals in the champions league . Ye it's more difficult cuz most people would pick a table that suits their army but so what. That's the essence of competition. Little advantages and big ones here and there.

Competition feeds people looking to win. That's the point! You want to win. But if you lose. Take away positives and look at why you lost. But do not blame the game, yes it has its pitfalls, but it's still perfectly fine.

The biggest problem for me is people want 40k to be something it isn't. So in that sense either play with people of like mindedness or stop moaning.

[lantzkev]

Both, to be honest.

Casual games are my preference - if I go to an organised event, it's to freshen up my gaming experience by taking on new opponents.

In either scenario, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by being an unpleasant opponent, win or lose. The important thing to remember is that whilst some are there to win the trophy, everyone is there to enjoy themselves. Even a hardcore tournament goer with their own WAAC list won't enjoy a game against a showboater. Doesn't matter which game you happen to be playing. Get in, get the job done as swiftly and competently as you can. If I end up with my bahookie on a silver platter in double quick time, I don't care. If it's clear my bahookie is platter bound from the third turn, but you delay the coup de grace so you can pull off your double hard combo? What's the point. Doesn't increase your win points. Just makes you an unpleasant opponent.

The sole exception to this is of course educational games. If you're showing someone the ropes, regardless of their age, don't just go for the throat. They're interested in learning the mechanics of the game, not how to use said mechanics to beat someone's deck or army senseless in double quick time. This is what put me right off Warmachine - the people I learned to play against were all about the win. They didn't see me as a potential future opponent who needed a guiding hand. Oh no. I was just a NooB punchbag who must be shown the error of not being an experienced player. Suffice to say I sold off what I had very shortly afterwards.

So your whole problem has nothing to do with competitive gaming, and with sports manship, an unrelated issue to the topic at hand, gotcha.