Lessons Learned at the LVO - A Call for Common Sense Within Our Community

**gory_v** · 02-26-2015, 04:52 PM

(I originally posted this under tactics, but decided that I'd rather post it here since the tactics folder has army tactics above posts made to general 40k tactics posts and I wanted it to be seen. Please remove the post from tactics if you see fit, I would've done it myself, but I'm ignorant as how to do so. Thanks!)

First off, let me introduce myself as humbly as I can, since I need to somehow convey my background while also not coming off as delusional or pretentious whatsoever. I have no intentions or aspirations other than to share my experiences and realizations after analyzing those experiences. I played 40k from the age of 12 to about 15 which consisted of playing games with my cousins to pass the time. I found the game again in the spring of 2013, went to my first big event at the Feast of Blades open later that year, have gone to the local GTs in my city (Genghis Con and Tacticon in Denver) and participated in the most recent Feast of Blades invitational and this weekend's LVO where my performance was not much to speak of. In my past I've been competitive at very high levels of hockey and golf, kickball (to a much lesser and serious extent), and did a brief stint as a competitive Guild Wars player in its inaugural year. It is my opinion that these experiences, along with the people that have tutored me along the way, have given me a very strict definition of what 'competitive' means and have recently been comparing it to my experiences with the 40k community as a whole. While the greater plan is to write a series of editorials and commentary regarding these topics, I thought I'd keep it simple to begin with in this first attempt.

Let me preface this by saying that I have a stubborn belief that no core rule should be changed within the game and Reece can attest to how much hell I gave him when the invisibility nerf was approved. I play daemons and while I already knew that running a list based on invis with Belakor was foolish, it didn't sway me in the belief that watering it down was the wrong way to go because it removes a tool from the possibilities of this game.

In a jaded attempt to bring my own big toy to the party, I painted up the dreamforge knight that had been collecting dust on the shelf as a counts as Castigator, and painted it to the theme of Dorothy (thanks for posting her on the site, Larry!) from the Wizard of Oz in an attempt at cleverness as a commentary on the state of 40k in comparison to the same exact time one year previous. What I then discovered this weekend was that Dorothy was actually more of a handicap than tool, since she ended up giving my opponent's first blood in 4 out of 6 games, I only ever got to stomp once, and I found myself on more than one occasion, playing her very conservatively against players who didn't bring a super heavy, for fear that they would feel blighted or cheated from her inclusion in my list. In the end, I would've been better off competitively if I had left Dorothy behind, but she was definitely an ice breaker with my opponents and brought a smile to many players over the weekend, for which I have no regrets.

At the end of the qualification rounds, while looking over the lists that performed well within the event and hashing it out with my friends, I went through the motions of analyzing what I could've done better at the event. I was sick with a cold this entire weekend and found myself blaming that for my first day performance (1-2) and while it may have played some part in keeping my concentration, I was brutally honest with myself and made my colleagues laugh when I looked at them and said, "I just need to stop being a bad 40k player."

While many people have reacted to the top lists with surprise and shock, I used to run very similar MSU type lists in 6th ed (aka death star 40k ed) and while I didn't blow anyone away, I always made my opponent have to grind and work for the win, something I still do today, a trait that I picked up from when I was competitive in other arenas outside of 40k. The truth of the matter is that those two players deserved to be at the top table because they outplayed everyone, period. They played incredibly tight, left as little to chance as possible (a feat in and of itself in a dice game), and brought lists that could out maneuver, out play, and out wit their opponent's throughout the entire weekend.

On the final day, after the final table had been decided, I was surprised to hear a few others sarcastically say that super heavies and forgeworld are SO OP, and while I did agree with some of their sentiment, I was turned off by how judgmental they were of their peers and still feel like super heavies and forgeworld have some serious cons when included in the competitive meta, but we'll leave that for another post. Anyways, if anything, we can all learn a lot from the top performers at LVO this weekend and it isn't anything new. KNOW YOUR ARMY.

40k is an interesting community from a sociological perspective to say the least with no help in part from GW itself. I've heard stories about the "good ol' days" where the release schedule was gradual and so predictable that it allowed players to truly identify the strongest army and list out there, resulting in a tournament scene where a lot of people ended up having the exact same list. While this is surely beneficial from a financial point of view, it didn't do a whole lot to grow the tournament attendance and actually had the problem of turning more people away who didn't want to face the same thing over and over again.

Now that the release schedule has gone in the polar opposite direction, it's amusing to still see complaints, possibly even more complaints than before. What the truly competitive players generally come to a consensus over, hasn't seemed to trickle down to the community as hoped, but here it is spelled out in black and white, THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST EDITIONS AND TIMES TO BE A COMPETITIVE 40K PLAYER.

So far we have had 7 army updates in 7th ed, with Nids, Knights, and Guard possibly being considered as "7th ed compliant" with the proximity of their releases to the release of 7th ed. It can generally be agreed that while these codices are watered down in comparison to Eldar, Tau, Daemons, etc, when put up against each other, this game is incredibly balanced. The amount of choices we all have in army organization through supplements, detachments, and allies is truly unprecedented and the amount of variety in armies brought to LVO supports this train of thought. While you may have seen a lot of the same combinations of allies, the units, upgrades, and play styles truly set everyone apart from one another which was very apparent in all 6 of my opponents, though one could argue that my experiences don't hold a lot of water since I finished 2-4 for the weekend, you can make your own judgment, I guess.

Which brings me to my next point. Don't smoke crack. (Waterboy anyone?)
All joking aside, the point I want to discuss is that we should STOP NET LISTING and become better players for the betterment of ourselves and the hobby; because continually chasing the meta during this rapid release schedule of GW's is a surefire way to lose money on models from playing the eBay shuffle, and inevitably losing interest in the game as a whole due to the ups and downs of the rat race. The top lists show that despite popular opinon, units are that are generally perceived as bad, have their uses when utilized creatively in the hands of someone who knows that they're doing when put into a list with well thought out purpose, in preparation for a particular format with terrain that makes that format work. End of story.

Rather than listen to the talking heads and jaded opinions of what a good list should consist of, DO YOUR OWN THING, bring something counter to the meta, be practiced and methodical in its implementation, and prove those detractors wrong. This may not hold a lot of water for some of you, but to be perfectly honest, you'll garner more respect by beating someone in your own way than a predictable method that you cut and pasted. It'll lessen the stress on your patience and wallet every time you feel tempted to buy into the next new OP perceived model or army list.

My roommate this weekend went 2nd overall Nids using 3 Flyrants (standard but not SUPER spammy), 2 squads of 10 Hormagaunts, 3 squads of 3 rippers with DS, 2 squads of 3 zoanthropes with neurothrope upgrades, 1 malanthrope, 1 dimachaeron, 1 exocrine, and 1 squad of 3 biovores in a CAD and hive fleet detachment. He told me he was considering including some lictors in the next amalgamation of his list and I cut him off, told him that he's a good player, and to play his own list. The top 2 nid primary lists at the LVO set a limit on 3 flyrants and neither had a barbed hierodule. Stop depriving yourself of learning to become better players by taking those perceived OP units because if we approach this game honestly, those units are crutches. I'm never going to judge someone across from me from bringing a super heavy or spamming in their army list (I've done it too, we all have), but I will say that in life, there IS such thing as too much of a good thing. Approach 40k like you approach other aspects in your life where balance is found through moderation and restraint.

That being said, let's punch each other in the face with good sportsmanship and realistic, honest break downs on how things could have gone better if we made a different choice, two, or in my case 20 choices within a game.

I'll be posting more about other things I've come to realize after this weekend which will probably be just as long winded and filled with tangents and opinions, so if you made it this far and like what you read, please stay tuned and wait patiently. Real life has to take priority over my plastic toys sometimes.

PS I seem to have left out that I sent an email to Reece thanking him for putting on a fantastic event and apologizing to him for my lack of faith that he knew what he was doing when he nerfed invis. The format and terrain made it to where even my unbuffed units had a chance to survive and it just kept me honest when I had to space my models appropriately to diminish the effect of template, blast, and large blast weapons. I'll always admit when I've been proven wrong. I would've edited this somewhere earlier in the post, but was at a loss as to where it should be inserted.

**DrBored** · 02-26-2015, 05:18 PM

Great article. Glad to hear this from someone experienced not just in 40k but in competition in general.

I've seen players that bring lists that would be torn apart by those jaded netlisters, and yet the players consistently win with things like CSM Defilers and Thousand Sons, and others that bring Ork units that consistently were listed as awful.

I personally really want to bring mech back, with more tanks than anyone else, yet every time I post a list, it's broken apart, people tell me Rhinos are garbage and to take Drop Pods instead. Well, I'm going to bring those Rhinos, those Land Raiders, and those Predators and I intend to prove them wrong by playing a better tank commander than my opponent.

**gory_v** · 02-26-2015, 06:19 PM

Thanks! My brain is currently reeling from LVO about things I learned about myself, larger GTs, and this community as a whole. Rather than just stew about them and obsess while I'm trying to focus on other things in my life, I decided to use some of my down time to put pen to paper and see if I can do my part in contributing to the community. I was very pleased to see your article this morning and have only grown in my commitment to put my thoughts and observations out there, knowing that there are reasonable, practical people who share a lot of the same intentions.

While I'm not super familiar with all of the nuances in the CSM dex (who can really claim to know everything about every army in 40k nowadays, right?) my only advice would be to play to the mission you're playing, experiment with different strategies, and don't be afraid to try something different. It's not like real lives are on the line here unless you've somehow found a way to make your minis come to life, haha. Have fun and best of luck in your attempts to make it work!

**Houghten** · 02-26-2015, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by gory_v

In a jaded attempt to bring my own big toy to the party, I painted up the dreamforge knight that had been collecting dust on the shelf as a counts as Castigator, and painted it to the theme of Dorothy (thanks for posting her on the site, Larry!) from the Wizard of Oz in an attempt at cleverness as a commentary on the state of 40k in comparison to the same exact time one year previous.

...I don't get it.

**gory_v** · 02-26-2015, 08:18 PM

We're not in Kansas anymore.

One year previous, there was very little consensus over the inclusion of forgeworld, stronghold, escalation, dataslates, formations, etc. Now, it's pretty much all kosher, though there are certainly exceptions.

**DrBored** · 02-26-2015, 10:50 PM

Honestly, I'm a bit appalled at some of the lists. I weep for the number of dollars spent on Imperial Knights and Sicaran tanks and Fire Raptors. Even Chaos lists had them.

I mean, I'm not a competitive player to begin with, but seeing that... it makes me just cry inside. The only thing that makes me happy out of all of this is that all those Knights didn't even win.

**lantzkev** · 02-26-2015, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by gory_v

We're not in Kansas anymore.

One year previous, there was very little consensus over the inclusion of forgeworld, stronghold, escalation, dataslates, formations, etc. Now, it's pretty much all kosher, though there are certainly exceptions.

Yeap, there's enough ways to win without forgeworld, all forgeworld does now it *** different options, the balance is there, but you gotta be ready to face something new you haven't seen (most likely)

**Popsical** · 02-27-2015, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by DrBored

Honestly, I'm a bit appalled at some of the lists. I weep for the number of dollars spent on Imperial Knights and Sicaran tanks and Fire Raptors. Even Chaos lists had them.

I mean, I'm not a competitive player to begin with, but seeing that... it makes me just cry inside. The only thing that makes me happy out of all of this is that all those Knights didn't even win.

+1 to this.
Demons with an inquisitor
Demons with nids
Necrons with assassins
Demons with knights
Nids with knights

These are lists that make me realize why i don't do tournaments anymore, the fluffy part of me just cant visualize the game.
Personal taste it is. We can all find our own fluffy reasons i suppose, but they smack of "i wanna win" to me.

**Houghten** · 02-27-2015, 03:46 AM