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  1. #1

    Default Designing a rules package for 40K

    Can everyone access this? I hope so!
    [url]https://drive.google.com/drive/#folders/0B7_TofINQVJafmRjQTI2SkFTaTRZREo2eHVHRjFBUXUwMFV1R 3VYWkVoeUh2TUhiQzNfbkE[/url]

    Hey guys,

    Larry here from HERO's Gaming Blog and I want to reach out to you on a community project. Are you familiar with how ETC is done for Warhammer Fantasy? It's a very intuitive rules packet that aims to promote game balance while still allowing players to take powerful options in their book.

    I've been developing something similar for 40K (geared for 1v1, championship format), in the attempt to get better quality games in instead of playing the rock-paper-scissors style of play in tournaments. I am already in touch with several community leaders with large connections to the competitive blogosphere and I would like to turn this rules package into something that's designed for the competitive gamer. I have already reached out to Reece from Frontline Gaming, Kirby from 3++, Larry on BoLS, and several contacts managing Adepticon and east coast majors.

    You might not know my gaming history, but I've been playing GW games for 14 years. I have a ton of competitive tourney experience, including competing in majors on the east coast, and now work in the computer game industry. I'm a competitive RTS player, ex-pro CS player, former balance designer (for said RTS games), and enjoy doing multiplayer balance-related projects on the side.

    Just some food for thought before you begin on this journey with me. The design goals for this document is as follows:
    • You can still take the good stuff, but in moderation.
    • We're out to limit powerful armies and combos, but not outright ban them.
    • The idea here is to promote equality among all armies in the game.


    You might think this is impossible to do because 40K has a billion supplements, data sheets, formations and whatnot, but this is a fallacy. Warhammer 40K might be more expansive than WHFB, but it is not more complex. Its rules are much simpler, the units are more streamlined, the combos are more defined, and most importantly, is less random. I think we should give it a shot, I know I need all the help I can get because there's just so much out there!

    Anyways, this project is supposed to be something fun, as well as challenging and I would like to get your input. Let me know what you think, and please, break it as much as you can. This is just a preliminary draft to showcase what the rules package is designed to do.
    Last edited by HERO; 03-12-2015 at 03:49 PM.
    HERO's Gaming Blog

  2. #2
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    Just make sure there are no re-rollable 2+'s, no Invisibility shenanigans, and no ranged D weapons.

    The rest of the issues are from GW changing their codices. You'd have to keep the document up to speed with each change in codex, which means playing a LOT of new games with each new codex right as it comes out to figure out what's broken and what's not.

    I wish you the best of luck.

  3. #3
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    Most Auustralian tournaments use a community comp that adds another pts system unto the GW one, so that the army as a whole has a pts cost based upon its composition, from everything I've read it seems to do a remarkably good job of leveling the field.

    also the fact that its done by the community means it can respond to playtesting and changes in the meta
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    Most Auustralian tournaments use a community comp that adds another pts system unto the GW one, so that the army as a whole has a pts cost based upon its composition, from everything I've read it seems to do a remarkably good job of leveling the field.

    also the fact that its done by the community means it can respond to playtesting and changes in the meta
    do you have an idea as to what the pts costs are - i would certainly be willing to give this a try...

  5. #5
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    I would suggest:

    Universal Points:
    - Each Void Shield (and each add-on) or Sky Landing Pad - 1 point
    - Each Flyer - 1 point
    - each vehicle with a combined armor value of over 35 (count side armor once) - 1 point

    Each Wave Serpent over 3 - 2 points
    Wraithknight - 1 point
    Each Wraithknight after the first - 3 points


    Each Daemon Prince with Mark of Nurgle - 3 points


    Each Nemesis Dreadknight after the first - 3 points


    Decurion Detachment - 5 points
    Reclamation Formation - 3 points
    Each Res Orb/Eternity Orb in the army after the first - 2 points
    Each unit of Canoptek Wraiths after the first - 3 points
    Each Catacomb Command Barge after the first - 3 points


    Each Riptide - 2 points
    Each FW named Riptide - 3 points
    Each unit of Broadsides - 1 point


    Each Centurian squad - 2 points
    Each Bike Squad (with white scars?? chapter tactics) - 1 point


    Flying Hive Tyrant - 1 point
    Each Flying Hive Tyrant after the first - 3 points


    these changes would help prevent spam (mostly) due to points limit of 5.
    Last edited by Mr.Gold; 03-11-2015 at 05:55 PM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    Most Auustralian tournaments use a community comp that adds another pts system unto the GW one, so that the army as a whole has a pts cost based upon its composition, from everything I've read it seems to do a remarkably good job of leveling the field.

    also the fact that its done by the community means it can respond to playtesting and changes in the meta
    Does it look like Swedish comp in WHFB?
    HERO's Gaming Blog

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HERO View Post
    Does it look like Swedish comp in WHFB?
    yes its similar to swedish comp but the values and certain other aspects are adjusted to the aussie community

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Gold View Post
    do you have an idea as to what the pts costs are - i would certainly be willing to give this a try...
    The whole document should be readily available at wargamerau
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  8. #8

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    All this is going to do is change what is competitive. People are still going to min max within any system. Accept it for what it is.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowcatX View Post
    All this is going to do is change what is competitive. People are still going to min max within any system. Accept it for what it is.
    not really, the second layer of Pts costs merely means that you cant just cram all the tricks into one army, it helps balance everything out
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Gold View Post
    I would suggest:

    Universal Points:
    - Each Void Shield (and each add-on) or Sky Landing Pad - 1 point
    - Each Flyer - 1 point
    - each vehicle with a combined armor value of over 35 (count side armor once) - 1 point

    Each Wave Serpent over 3 - 2 points
    Wraithknight - 1 point
    Each Wraithknight after the first - 3 points


    Each Daemon Prince with Mark of Nurgle - 3 points


    Each Nemesis Dreadknight after the first - 3 points


    Decurion Detachment - 5 points
    Reclamation Formation - 3 points
    Each Res Orb/Eternity Orb in the army after the first - 2 points
    Each unit of Canoptek Wraiths after the first - 3 points
    Each Catacomb Command Barge after the first - 3 points


    Each Riptide - 2 points
    Each FW named Riptide - 3 points
    Each unit of Broadsides - 1 point

    .
    Going to speak just to the tau side of things...

    lol on the "named forgeworld riptides" none are named. If you mean the riptide variants... meh calling em 3 pts is ridiculous, likewise assigning ANY point value to broadsides is idiotic. Actually this whole point system for stuff is just ridiculous.

    Hell the points for void shields and sky ray is just silly, "hey I hate armies that need a gunline to have protection, I'll do something to help nerf that"
    Limiting Dreadknights? what is this sillyness.

    The whole thing just strikes me as an overcomplicated rational to list comp, when you can just simply say "none of this, or max of this"

    Keep it simple, just say what you don't want to see spammed and go on. If you think having kaldor and three dreadknights is too much, just limit it rather than this point system of "well you can take three dreadknights, but you can't then take anything else, even a champ that's your chapters go to main man of doom"

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