The State of Chaos Today

[DrBored]

you do know the the guard heavy weapon teams are a separate kit don't you? they aren't resin coming in plastic/metal depending on which flavour of guard but they are £10 each

Oh yeah, I know that. That's what I'm saying though. Our Thousand Sons and Noise Marines are just resin upgrade kits, and our Plague Marines are off-scale full resin, and our Havocs are all resin for all our heavy weapons except the Heavy Bolter.

Your Valhallan or whatever.. they don't matter in the grand scheme of things. You can use Cadian and Catachan models to make a full plastic force without losing any codex entries, except maybe Ratlings or Rough Riders.

[Reldane]

Oh yeah, I know that. That's what I'm saying though. Our Thousand Sons and Noise Marines are just resin upgrade kits, and our Plague Marines are off-scale full resin, and our Havocs are all resin for all our heavy weapons except the Heavy Bolter.

Your Valhallan or whatever.. they don't matter in the grand scheme of things. You can use Cadian and Catachan models to make a full plastic force without losing any codex entries, except maybe Ratlings or Rough Riders.

and chaos players can use loyalist devistators as havoks.

okay joking aside, I would like to see more armies with upto date models and Chaos Marines are certainly in need of some attention in that department. however no matter how much greener the grass looks on the other side of the fence it rarely is (unless its vanila marines) and trying to justify demands by point out what other armies have only makes the chaos players needs look more like moans.

in principle playing one of the chaos legions and playing one of the non catachan non cadian guard forces is very simalar. We are doing it to theam our armies, because we value the unique look and feel of an army that belongs together rather than trying to spam whatever is regarded as most points efficent. In both of these cases and probaly half a dozen more Games workshop has avoided giving us what we might want and instead given us Oygrn or Multialtors or whatever.

[daboarder]

in principle playing one of the chaos legions and playing one of the non catachan non cadian guard forces is very simalar. We are doing it to theam our armies, because we value the unique look and feel of an army that belongs together rather than trying to spam whatever is regarded as most points efficent. In both of these cases and probaly half a dozen more Games workshop has avoided giving us what we might want and instead given us Oygrn or Multialtors or whatever.

not really, CSM are not just a marine subset

[Deadlift]

I've just started experimenting with a new Alpha Legion army, can't afford FW models atm, don't like chaos marines, far too spikey, so I'm using Loyalist marines instead. Getting rid of any aquilas and what not is easy enough and I'm having a blast painting them. But the OP has a very good point. The chaos marine range is lacking in comparison.

[DrBored]

not really, CSM are not just a marine subset

SO MUCH THIS.

I don't understand how Dark Angels and Blood Angels and Space Wolves players feel MORE ENTITLED than Chaos players sometimes! It's like.. really? We're not on the same level DA/BA/SW players. Seriously.

[Broodingman87]

We're not on the same level DA/BA/SW players. Seriously.

You have to admit, that "warp chicken" is really intimidating, and the forge fiend with S8 Plasma Cannons is ridiculous, T6 bikes, I can go on...

Let's look at the DA line,

Azrael - metal - Why does the Chapter Master not have Eternal Warrior, or an AP2 sword?
Beliel - Resin - Power sword/Master-crafted Stormbolter -> LCs or TH/SS... he has the same wargear as a Terminator Sargent yet he's Captain of the 1st company.
Samual - metal - The beat stick of the codex is the Captain of the 2nd company and not the first? And his Landspeeder is a joke.
Asmodai - Resin - He's a Chaplin with 2x Close combat weapons... that's it... and unlike Beliel, he has not Options
Ezekiel - metal - He's level 3, but Ahriman is level 4, or Tiberius who can re-roll powers, Mepiston who's Force Weapon is S10, Njal who can re-roll psychic dice and re-roll Deny the Witch.
Company Master - Resin/Dark Vengeance
Librarian - Dark Vengeance
Standard Marines - upgrade sprew
Deathwing Knights - Plastic - Terminators with AP4 hammers... wth!
Deathwing Terminators - Plastic - same box as Deathwing Command Squad, Terminators with Plasma Cannons! can have mixed weapons squads, but some can every non-codex chapter, Sargent can change his weapons. and they're 5 points more that every other Terminator
Nephhilm jetfight/ Dark Talon Bomber - Plastic - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Where do I begin?
Ravenwing Black knights - plastic - Same kit as Ravenwing Command Squad, bikes with Skilled Rider and Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, but they're 18" not 24".... 43 points a man? Holy crap!
Landspeeder Vengeance - plastic - Our only unique Heavy Support, a large blast Plasma cannon on a Landspeeder.... It's really useful, but 10 all around really hurts it.

The only artifact worth taking is the Combi- Plasma cannon on a Librarian. Standards are really expensive and the Helldrake made Standard of Devastation not worth taking. Chapter Tactic is Stubborn, which is ok but the only time that matters is when you lose Combat and Dark Angels is NOT a Close Combat army.

BTW... the bits for our standards don't exist.

[Houghten]

You appear to be complaining about the rules more than the models. This is a "complain about old and / or non-plastic models" thread, in which department Dark Angels have very little to do. If I were going to make one complaint about the DA model line, it wouldn't be about the metal HQs, it'd be how there isn't even one shoulder pad in the upgrade sprue for a basic DA symbol on a plain field.

[Broodingman87]

You appear to be complaining about the rules more than the models. This is a "complain about old and / or non-plastic models" thread, in which department Dark Angels have very little to do. If I were going to make one complaint about the DA model line, it wouldn't be about the metal HQs, it'd be how there isn't even one shoulder pad in the upgrade sprue for a basic DA symbol on a plain field.

It's less about complaining about rules and more about being honest, because there are people who don't care about the models, they can play with a bucket of green and tan army men if you let them. If the unit isn't worth taking then why make an updated model for it. Honestly, why take Havocs when you can take Obliterators? Why make new Havocs if no one is going to buy/use them? You feel me?

Yes, there are esthetic complaints I have with models but it's mostly that the models are bland, we look like green, white, and black Ultramarines. For example, look at the Assault cannon Terminator from Dark Vengeance, then look at the heavy weapon Terminator for the Deathwing box, the DV dude has feathers hanging everywhere, a kilt of swords, the DW guy, nothing. Compare that to a Chaos model and it looks nothing to a codex marine.

The reason the sprue doesn't come with a shoulder pad is because its on the transfer sheet.

Factor in another thing, most new players don't buy new models, mostly EBay, when I started the game, it was a trade of my Black Reach models for a Tyrant, Fex, Macragge guants and stealers, and more mines then I can count.

[RGilbert26]

While it's mute, Belial and Sammael are Finecast. Sammael got converted to Finecast ages ago and Belial never had a model until he got released in Finecast.

[Cutter]

It's less about complaining about rules and more about being honest, because there are people who don't care about the models, they can play with a bucket of green and tan army men if you let them.

Yup. Army Men, Heroclix, 1/72 German armour, it's all good.