The State of Chaos Today

[DrBored]

I'm just going to take a moment to put forward some information. I'm passionate about Chaos Space Marines and would love to see them get the same sort of support as we've seen other Codices get recently.

Here's the thing. With the exception of a few character models and maybe one or two entries, the following Codices are pretty much complete, with entire ranges of plastic.
Tyranids
Grey Knights
Necron
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Dark Angels
Astra Militarum

These Codices you can pick up and have an entire force that is plastic without feeling like you're missing anything key. Yes, there are a few resin characters here and there, and one or two entries, like the Dark Eldar Beast Master and beasts and AM Ratlings and stuff like that, but those don't make up a considerable portion of the Codex.

These below have significant chunks that are not only old, but were haphazardly moved to resin:

Tau - specifically Kroot and Vespid
Eldar - ALL Aspect Warriors
Orks - a few vehicles and some other things, not 100% on these guys
Daemons - The Greater Daemons, a few Heralds, Fiends of Slaanesh, Beast of Nurgle, and a few others
and finally...

Chaos Marines:
-Mutilators - while new, are resin
-Obliterators - old metal converted to resin
-Khorne Berzerkers - from 3rd edition, some of the oldest plastic you can get
-Plague Marines - previously metal, now resin, a head shorter than regular marines
-Noise Marines - The Chaos Marine kit with resin tacked on
-Thousand Sons - The Chaos Marine kit with resin tacked on
-Chaos Cultists - Only way to get them is Dark Vengeance or little extra boxes taken from DV sprues
-All Named Characters
-Chaos Havocs - The only way to get Chaos heavy weapons is to get these old resin models
-Chaos Chosen - Don't exist. Yes, there are the DV models. Space Marines have Vanguard Vets AND Sternguard. Where are our Chosen?

Of special note, Chaos Terminators, Bikers, the Defiler, and of course the main Chaos Marine set are all showing their age, and all Chaos vehicles are still just Space Marines, but more expensive with that extra Chaos bits sprue tacked on. There are also some resin generic characters that, while beautiful, are starting to feel out of place..

The only things Chaos Marines have that are brand spankin' new are...
-Helbrute - Gorgeous, beautiful kit, easy to magnetize, a pleasure to paint and build, tons of beautiful options that cover all weapons it can have
-Chaos Raptors - Brilliantly stunning baroque style, ancient-looking jetpacks brought in, and Warptalon options for flavor. Also the best way to get Lightning Claws ever.
-Dark Vengeance - All incredible models, beautiful, fresh, with a new aesthetic that is far away from 'marines with spikey bits', a breath of fresh air in a whole army
-Maulerfiend/Forgefiend - Unique, new, and above all else, Chaotic, and I love it.
-Heldrake - A great kit that has lots of opportunity for conversion and paint, though I wish they didn't model it perpetually banking, but that's just me.
-Possessed - While not a new kit, is a great kit for bits and conversion, appropriately chaotic, and fits well with all the rest.
-Chaos Spawn - Again, not a new kit, but is fresh and a delight to work with, and has lots of opportunity for conversion.
-Daemon Prince - Our only true plastic HQ option, a brilliant model with lots of options and opportunity.

And with that I've covered the entire Chaos Marine range. Do I have to extrapolate?

The Chaos Marine range is a haphazard mess of old kits, resin, and fresh new kits that have a completely different aesthetic than the old. I welcome the new kits, but we need more of them.

Why am I posting this? To explain why I'm so frustrated. To me, it's less about the rules and more about the models. I started building Space Sharks and have never touched a Space Marine bike, Centurion, or Thunderfire Cannon because I just don't like those models. I would love to get back into Chaos Marines, but with the range looking the way it does, there's really no motivation, no impetus.

Yeah, you could make an army using only new kits. You'll have DV cultists, Forgefiends/Maulerfiends for heavy, Helbrutes for elite, Heldrakes and Raptors for fast, and the Chaos Lord from the DV set, with maybe a Warpsmith or Acolyte or the new Sorcerer or Daemon Prince thrown in. Does that sound like the type of army that typifies the World Eaters? The Emperor's Children? The Thousand Sons? Heck, even Black Legion wouldn't look like that!

The point is, HALF of our entries are resin, ancient, or both (with most entries being troop-based), and with the new Codex of Khorne rumored to be coming up soon, I'm terrified, TERRIFIED that Games Workshop is not going to update Khorne Berzerkers. If they do? Great! I will delete this post entirely, because it will be the first hint that from a model perspective, GW is finally ready to update the biggest bad that ever went bad in their verse.

If they don't? Then you won't hear the end of it from Chaos Marine players. To have a God-Specific Codex with no new models.. even if we DID get one for Nurgle and Tzeentch, unless those cult troops get updated, then in my mind there's no reason to invest in those lines for new players.

Here's hoping this new Codex is worth its salt, if it does indeed appear. It's going to take a monumental effort to make an almost exclusively-assault army perform the way it needs to perform.

[daboarder]

Convert my friend, go out and create your grand symphony to the Dark Gods in the unique and cohesive fashion that YOU choose. Call forth the dark glory or bygone days and revel in the inability of kiddy friendly GW to contain the glory of Chaos.


seriously though, conversion opportunities is one of the biggest drives towards the Chaos faction, therefore while you make excellent points I feel that it is less of an issue for our army in particular than it would be for others.

On two side notes, its only really in the last year-6 months that nids got significant plastic love, and we are still missing some units/ have some resin expenses (lictor )

Also if your conversion skills aren't that great to start I have a serious of tutorials that you can find by simply googling "daboarder's How To's" I currently have some basic Nurgle, Slaanesh and Nid ones, but when I come back to 40k after feeding my infinity fix for a bit I'll be adding more for the other Dark Gods.

[DrBored]

A decent idea, but I'm an OCD dood that loves to build out of the box. My conversion skills are bad.. I've actually looked into some tutorials, yours included, and it was.. uh.. Not so great.

[Broodingman87]

Yeah, I don't understand why they didn't release new kits. Considering most models are based off one central torso, I don't understand why there needs to be so many different kits, there is no reason for there to not be a kit that makes:

-Chaos Marines/Havocs/Khorne Berzerkers/Plague Marines/Noise Marines/Thousand Sons/Chaos Chosen kit - All it takes is couple upgrade sprews thrown in the box.
-Mutilators/Obliterators/Chaos Terminators kit
-Chaos Raptors/Warptalons/Possessed kit
-Chaos Cultists/Plague Zombies kit

Look at that, all the Chaos infantry in 4 kits.

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seriously though, conversion opportunities is one of the biggest drives towards the Chaos faction, therefore while you make excellent points I feel that it is less of an issue for our army in particular than it would be for others.

Orks would disagree with you.

[daboarder]

Orks would disagree with you.

I actually think that Chaos is better for the converter than Orks.

Orks, while being very ramshakle and variable in appearance, are very defined in design, there isn't a whole lot of variation on the theme (though there can be as with anything exceptions)

Chaos, now Chaos has as many themes as it does players and the variation in design principles is almost as endless as its namesake

In essence, an ORK, is an ORK, is an ORK.

Chaos is anything from the deepest darkest depths of your imagination

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A decent idea, but I'm an OCD dood that loves to build out of the box. My conversion skills are bad.. I've actually looked into some tutorials, yours included, and it was.. uh.. Not so great.

I'm sorry to hear that man, and I really hope it doesn't stifle your hobby.

[Broodingman87]

I actually think that Chaos is better for the converter than Orks.

Orks, while being very ramshakle and variable in appearance, are very defined in design, there isn't a whole lot of variation on the theme (though there can be as with anything exceptions)

Chaos, now Chaos has as many themes as it does players and the variation in design principles is almost as endless as its namesake

In essence, an ORK, is an ORK, is an ORK.

Chaos is anything from the deepest darkest depths of your imagination

Then I guess you've never seen BatMek? Or the tiptoeing crate with and acme sign that said "nott a ork". Or the Boyz on the mountain with the space marine "bird seed". One of my local guys has a Warboss with a cigar and picking it bellybutton with a speech bobble "U gota purty mouf boy".

A big theme with the Orks is they don't take war seriously, and a lot of players hide little jokes in there army for you to stumble on.

[daboarder]

yeah man, I know.

But we're discussing personal opinions here, and I reckon those Orks would all be bow backed, spread legged with two arms and two legs of some sort. probably assorted pieces or metal plating painted green etc.

Now chaos....I have a terminator with a damned rotten vulture head, a slaaneshi champion with a tail, no legs and 4 arms...

thats what I talk about when I am talking about design consistency.

[Broodingman87]

Now chaos....I have a terminator with a damned rotten vulture head, a slaaneshi champion with a tail, no legs and 4 arms...

No boobies? For shame, the Dark Lady would not approve! Right, the bird head for Mark of Tzeentch, but why is it rotting? Tzeentch hates Papa Nurgle.

[daboarder]

No boobies? For shame, the Dark Lady would not approve! Right, the bird head for Mark of Tzeentch, but why is it rotting? Tzeentch hates Papa Nurgle.

Well the vulture is a nurgle termie (death and all that) and yeah plenty of gratuity in the slaanesh models

[Kazzigum]

I actually think Chaos is the best army for conversion work, though orks can be great too. But ultimately, I love converting and it's what drew me to chaos back in the days of yore in Legion of the Damned and Slaves to Darkness. The d1000 mutation table just screamed conversions to me. I just love converting, and after all these years, I'd like to think I'm good at it. People tell me I am, so..<shrug>

But ... DrBored IS nevertheless right. Our product line has been neglected. But, I'm not entirely sure it's on purpose really ... No, no, hear me out.Te current Chaos codex came out before the madness that is the last 18 months of GW's release schedule. I mean, seriously, I know that people have short memories, but they've released new product in the last 18 months (particularly for 40k) that's roughly equivalent to 5 year's worth of the same at pretty much any other time in their existence. I mean, counting sourcebooks, they must have did 10+ codices in 2014. That's crazy! We were getting 4 in a good year before. With all that, I think chaos just was done too soon before they launched this new era and they've just been focused on other factions in the meantime.

We will be getting our turn, starting now. Oh, I know berserkers are not being redone, but honestly, I'm cool with it. I actually like their kit, it's just that no one seems to know how to pose them right. Also, if you can get a hold of some of the Slaves to Darkness era metals, well ... they're just gorgeous. Having said that, they DID just release the new plastic bloodthirster, which everyone except me has just been begging for, and well, it is pretty awesome. I have the feeling that this year will be good to us chaos players, as I honestly expect GW will release a god-centric book like this with every new plastic greater daemon they release (though I doubt we'll get more than 2 this year -- probably just the Lord of Change/a Tzeentch book later this year in addition to this one based on rumors). I'd guess Nurgle and Slaanesh next year.

The main problem for us Chaos players is that many just can't let go of the past (ironic, I know). The legions as we loved them in the first three editions are dead and gone. It is clear this is the view that GW espouses for those who pay attention. Hmmm ... I've actually been toying with writing an article laying this case out for a couple days. Chaos players just need to move on. I have, and my favorite army is, has been, and always will be Thousand Sons. Oh, I play other Chaos ... Khorne beserkers, pure Khorne daemons, pure Tzeentch daemons and I have plans for Emperor's Children/Slaanesh daemons and plague marines/zombies. I even have other plans for several armies from IA 13. But ... I love TS, and I'm content with what I can do with them now. I can run a bunch of sorcerers and toss magic all around. I make liberal use of daemon engines and other slaves to my sorcerers' wills. It 'feels' like the TS, though it is admittedly not too competitive. I'm good with that. Would I like a TS sourcebook? Sure I would. But I've excepted that is not GW's plan. The legions are dead. But, like the bitter legionaries themselves, I refuse to accept the truth. And so, I carry on. I view these god-centric books as a dark blessing. Though I know they wont cater to the legions specifically, I hope for formations, warlord charts and relics that may do so, at least a bit. I will bend what they provide to my will.