The State of Chaos Today

[DrBored]

I'm just going to take a moment to put forward some information. I'm passionate about Chaos Space Marines and would love to see them get the same sort of support as we've seen other Codices get recently.

Here's the thing. With the exception of a few character models and maybe one or two entries, the following Codices are pretty much complete, with entire ranges of plastic.
Tyranids
Grey Knights
Necron
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Dark Angels
Astra Militarum

These Codices you can pick up and have an entire force that is plastic without feeling like you're missing anything key. Yes, there are a few resin characters here and there, and one or two entries, like the Dark Eldar Beast Master and beasts and AM Ratlings and stuff like that, but those don't make up a considerable portion of the Codex.

These below have significant chunks that are not only old, but were haphazardly moved to resin:

Tau - specifically Kroot and Vespid
Eldar - ALL Aspect Warriors
Orks - a few vehicles and some other things, not 100% on these guys
Daemons - The Greater Daemons, a few Heralds, Fiends of Slaanesh, Beast of Nurgle, and a few others
and finally...

Chaos Marines:
-Mutilators - while new, are resin
-Obliterators - old metal converted to resin
-Khorne Berzerkers - from 3rd edition, some of the oldest plastic you can get
-Plague Marines - previously metal, now resin, a head shorter than regular marines
-Noise Marines - The Chaos Marine kit with resin tacked on
-Thousand Sons - The Chaos Marine kit with resin tacked on
-Chaos Cultists - Only way to get them is Dark Vengeance or little extra boxes taken from DV sprues
-All Named Characters
-Chaos Havocs - The only way to get Chaos heavy weapons is to get these old resin models
-Chaos Chosen - Don't exist. Yes, there are the DV models. Space Marines have Vanguard Vets AND Sternguard. Where are our Chosen?

Of special note, Chaos Terminators, Bikers, the Defiler, and of course the main Chaos Marine set are all showing their age, and all Chaos vehicles are still just Space Marines, but more expensive with that extra Chaos bits sprue tacked on. There are also some resin generic characters that, while beautiful, are starting to feel out of place..

The only things Chaos Marines have that are brand spankin' new are...
-Helbrute - Gorgeous, beautiful kit, easy to magnetize, a pleasure to paint and build, tons of beautiful options that cover all weapons it can have
-Chaos Raptors - Brilliantly stunning baroque style, ancient-looking jetpacks brought in, and Warptalon options for flavor. Also the best way to get Lightning Claws ever.
-Dark Vengeance - All incredible models, beautiful, fresh, with a new aesthetic that is far away from 'marines with spikey bits', a breath of fresh air in a whole army
-Maulerfiend/Forgefiend - Unique, new, and above all else, Chaotic, and I love it.
-Heldrake - A great kit that has lots of opportunity for conversion and paint, though I wish they didn't model it perpetually banking, but that's just me.
-Possessed - While not a new kit, is a great kit for bits and conversion, appropriately chaotic, and fits well with all the rest.
-Chaos Spawn - Again, not a new kit, but is fresh and a delight to work with, and has lots of opportunity for conversion.
-Daemon Prince - Our only true plastic HQ option, a brilliant model with lots of options and opportunity.

And with that I've covered the entire Chaos Marine range. Do I have to extrapolate?

The Chaos Marine range is a haphazard mess of old kits, resin, and fresh new kits that have a completely different aesthetic than the old. I welcome the new kits, but we need more of them.

Why am I posting this? To explain why I'm so frustrated. To me, it's less about the rules and more about the models. I started building Space Sharks and have never touched a Space Marine bike, Centurion, or Thunderfire Cannon because I just don't like those models. I would love to get back into Chaos Marines, but with the range looking the way it does, there's really no motivation, no impetus.

Yeah, you could make an army using only new kits. You'll have DV cultists, Forgefiends/Maulerfiends for heavy, Helbrutes for elite, Heldrakes and Raptors for fast, and the Chaos Lord from the DV set, with maybe a Warpsmith or Acolyte or the new Sorcerer or Daemon Prince thrown in. Does that sound like the type of army that typifies the World Eaters? The Emperor's Children? The Thousand Sons? Heck, even Black Legion wouldn't look like that!

The point is, HALF of our entries are resin, ancient, or both (with most entries being troop-based), and with the new Codex of Khorne rumored to be coming up soon, I'm terrified, TERRIFIED that Games Workshop is not going to update Khorne Berzerkers. If they do? Great! I will delete this post entirely, because it will be the first hint that from a model perspective, GW is finally ready to update the biggest bad that ever went bad in their verse.

If they don't? Then you won't hear the end of it from Chaos Marine players. To have a God-Specific Codex with no new models.. even if we DID get one for Nurgle and Tzeentch, unless those cult troops get updated, then in my mind there's no reason to invest in those lines for new players.

Here's hoping this new Codex is worth its salt, if it does indeed appear. It's going to take a monumental effort to make an almost exclusively-assault army perform the way it needs to perform.

[daboarder]

Convert my friend, go out and create your grand symphony to the Dark Gods in the unique and cohesive fashion that YOU choose. Call forth the dark glory or bygone days and revel in the inability of kiddy friendly GW to contain the glory of Chaos.


seriously though, conversion opportunities is one of the biggest drives towards the Chaos faction, therefore while you make excellent points I feel that it is less of an issue for our army in particular than it would be for others.

On two side notes, its only really in the last year-6 months that nids got significant plastic love, and we are still missing some units/ have some resin expenses (lictor )

Also if your conversion skills aren't that great to start I have a serious of tutorials that you can find by simply googling "daboarder's How To's" I currently have some basic Nurgle, Slaanesh and Nid ones, but when I come back to 40k after feeding my infinity fix for a bit I'll be adding more for the other Dark Gods.

[DrBored]

A decent idea, but I'm an OCD dood that loves to build out of the box. My conversion skills are bad.. I've actually looked into some tutorials, yours included, and it was.. uh.. Not so great.

[Broodingman87]

Yeah, I don't understand why they didn't release new kits. Considering most models are based off one central torso, I don't understand why there needs to be so many different kits, there is no reason for there to not be a kit that makes:

-Chaos Marines/Havocs/Khorne Berzerkers/Plague Marines/Noise Marines/Thousand Sons/Chaos Chosen kit - All it takes is couple upgrade sprews thrown in the box.
-Mutilators/Obliterators/Chaos Terminators kit
-Chaos Raptors/Warptalons/Possessed kit
-Chaos Cultists/Plague Zombies kit

Look at that, all the Chaos infantry in 4 kits.

- - - Updated - - -

seriously though, conversion opportunities is one of the biggest drives towards the Chaos faction, therefore while you make excellent points I feel that it is less of an issue for our army in particular than it would be for others.

Orks would disagree with you.

[daboarder]

Orks would disagree with you.

I actually think that Chaos is better for the converter than Orks.

Orks, while being very ramshakle and variable in appearance, are very defined in design, there isn't a whole lot of variation on the theme (though there can be as with anything exceptions)

Chaos, now Chaos has as many themes as it does players and the variation in design principles is almost as endless as its namesake

In essence, an ORK, is an ORK, is an ORK.

Chaos is anything from the deepest darkest depths of your imagination

- - - Updated - - -

A decent idea, but I'm an OCD dood that loves to build out of the box. My conversion skills are bad.. I've actually looked into some tutorials, yours included, and it was.. uh.. Not so great.

I'm sorry to hear that man, and I really hope it doesn't stifle your hobby.

[Broodingman87]

I actually think that Chaos is better for the converter than Orks.

Orks, while being very ramshakle and variable in appearance, are very defined in design, there isn't a whole lot of variation on the theme (though there can be as with anything exceptions)

Chaos, now Chaos has as many themes as it does players and the variation in design principles is almost as endless as its namesake

In essence, an ORK, is an ORK, is an ORK.

Chaos is anything from the deepest darkest depths of your imagination

Then I guess you've never seen BatMek? Or the tiptoeing crate with and acme sign that said "nott a ork". Or the Boyz on the mountain with the space marine "bird seed". One of my local guys has a Warboss with a cigar and picking it bellybutton with a speech bobble "U gota purty mouf boy".

A big theme with the Orks is they don't take war seriously, and a lot of players hide little jokes in there army for you to stumble on.

[daboarder]

yeah man, I know.

But we're discussing personal opinions here, and I reckon those Orks would all be bow backed, spread legged with two arms and two legs of some sort. probably assorted pieces or metal plating painted green etc.

Now chaos....I have a terminator with a damned rotten vulture head, a slaaneshi champion with a tail, no legs and 4 arms...

thats what I talk about when I am talking about design consistency.

[Broodingman87]

Now chaos....I have a terminator with a damned rotten vulture head, a slaaneshi champion with a tail, no legs and 4 arms...

No boobies? For shame, the Dark Lady would not approve! Right, the bird head for Mark of Tzeentch, but why is it rotting? Tzeentch hates Papa Nurgle.

[Reldane]

Here's the thing. With the exception of a few character models and maybe one or two entries, the following Codices are pretty much complete, with entire ranges of plastic.
Tyranids
Grey Knights
Necron
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Dark Angels
Astra Militarum

hold on! lets have a look at this shall we?

Troops
we have Cadian and catachn in plastic, Tallarn, Valhallan, steel legion, vostroyan and Mordian iron guard all in metal. okay well you can argue that they are suplemtary but how about our specail weapons? you know those things that every vets squad takes 3 of? yup metal blister packs.

HQ
Straken - metal, Advisers - metal, Techpreist - metal, Primaris psyker - metal, Pask - metal and with Creed, Kell and Yarrick in fine cast

others slots
actauly not too bad, just Ratlings, Wyrdvane psykers in metal and no Rought Riders to speak of. (Vendetta being a forgeworld resin upgrade kit)

if it wasn't for the fact that special weapons are still metal blister packs containing 2 different weapons that depend on the faction I might have let it slide, but it is still nearly impossible to build a Guard army that does not contain metal, finecast and plastic models. also you mention the age of some of the chaos models as a point against them but you seem to be forgetting that the basic guardsmen are just as old.

I'm not trying to say Chaos doesn't deserve some new models at some point but Astra Militarum are far from being all plastic as well (because someone decided what we needed was new betterer twice the cost ogryn and a vehicle (taurox) that offers almost no advantages over the existing Chimera)

[This Dave]

U

hold on! lets have a look at this shall we?

Troops
we have Cadian and catachn in plastic, Tallarn, Valhallan, steel legion, vostroyan and Mordian iron guard all in metal. okay well you can argue that they are suplemtary but how about our specail weapons? you know those things that every vets squad takes 3 of? yup metal blister packs.

HQ
Straken - metal, Advisers - metal, Techpreist - metal, Primaris psyker - metal, Pask - metal and with Creed, Kell and Yarrick in fine cast

others slots
actauly not too bad, just Ratlings, Wyrdvane psykers in metal and no Rought Riders to speak of. (Vendetta being a forgeworld resin upgrade kit)

if it wasn't for the fact that special weapons are still metal blister packs containing 2 different weapons that depend on the faction I might have let it slide, but it is still nearly impossible to build a Guard army that does not contain metal, finecast and plastic models. also you mention the age of some of the chaos models as a point against them but you seem to be forgetting that the basic guardsmen are just as old.

I'm not trying to say Chaos doesn't deserve some new models at some point but Astra Militarum are far from being all plastic as well (because someone decided what we needed was new betterer twice the cost ogryn and a vehicle (taurox) that offers almost no advantages over the existing Chimera)

Actually you don't need metal packs to put special weapons in Guard squads. The basic infantry packs have Grenade Launchers and Flamers. The Command Squad boxes include Meltaguns, Sniper Rifles, Plasmaguns, and Heavy Flamers. And if you've ever built Marines you should have multiple Imperial weapons lying around that work just fine with Guard infantry.